comment #1

nelson37 says ...

I wish I could still be alive 100 years from now so I could join in the fun of laughing at the environmentalism hysteria of the early 21st century. I predict many people will be driving their gas guzzling vehicles of the future to midnight screenings of "An Inconvenient Truth", the camp classic of documentaries

comment #2

frankbooth says ...

What you fail to acknowledge, Jeffrey,is that there is a HUGE international cabal of enviro-Nazis who are making many billions of dollars off the "global warming" conspiracy. Off of books and lectures and stuff. They are making FAR more annually than the oil companies, and have infiltrated every level of our society, including government. Every so-called scientist you see sounding the alarm about this impending "disaster" is on the payroll or being blackmailed by these people.

As for "warming," it's obviously a crock. It's cooler today than it was yesterday. If it were really true, the temperature would consistently climb a degree or two, day-by-day, until we all caught fire.

comment #3

D.Z. says ...

frank: So are the people in the Pentagon who said global warming is a bigger threat than terrorism also on the payroll? And if you think it's a crock, then how come we've had more wildfires and floods in the last year across the country than we've had in the last decade?

comment #4

frankbooth says ...

Well, D.Z., I saw an episode of South Park in which the enviro-Nazis were really mean and violent. They even kill Kenny.

They are bad people.

comment #5

gruver1 says ...

Wells to nelson37 and frankbooth: As far as I'm concerned, global-warming deniers park their cars in a garage located only a block or so away from the garage used by holocaust deniers. I have no respect for people who advance such idiocy; people who respect the human brain's capacity for assimiliating and processing new and vital knowledge look upon people like yourselves with either contempt or pity. Why do you guys come to this site? Why don't you go somewhere where you own kind congregates? Seriously, your views on global warming are repulsive. You stink up the place.

comment #6

Josh Massey says ...

Seriously guys, get with the program! Just ignore that it hasn't gotten any warmer for over a decade now - Al Gore says the science is settled, so it's settled!

comment #7

Indeed says ...

"Most of the "deniers" I know take issue not with the scientific pursuit of the truth about warming, but with unqualified, acrimoniouis, hypocritical, msnbc-watching amateurs without college degrees who look no farther than wikipedia for information declaring something as fact."

+1.

That and theres really nothing close to conclusive proof. If there was, I would believe it. But theres not. Same reason Im an athiest. I need more than blind faith.

Equating questioning something of which there is no proof whatsoever to denying the Holocaust is really just proof of a small, small mind.

comment #8

BNick says ...

I'll concede that the global warming deniers park close to the holocaust deniers if you concede that the people who compare global warming to the holocaust park even closer to the holocaust deniers.

comment #9

Indeed says ...

"Seriously guys, get with the program! Just ignore that it hasn't gotten any warmer for over a decade now - Al Gore says the science is settled, so it's settled!"

Not only that, but its actually gotten cooler.

The bitch of this is that theres actually documented proof of that.

Something that folks who blindly support MMGW lack in spades.

And no, more wildfires last year than the year before is not proof.

comment #10

D.Z. says ...

supertaster:

"Most of the "deniers" I know take issue not with the scientific pursuit of the truth about warming, but with unqualified, acrimoniouis, hypocritical, msnbc-watching amateurs without college degrees who look no farther than wikipedia for information declaring something as fact."

Yes, using research is dumb.

Josh: Yes that link says otherwise.

Indeed: "That and theres really nothing close to conclusive proof."

Except for all the scientific data, sure.

comment #11

Indeed says ...

And on any other site I would assume that the author was joking if he posted a story about a tropical storm forming in an area where tropical storms form more often than almost anywhere else during a time of the year that they are most likely to form as proof of global warming.

comment #12

D.Z. says ...

Indeed: "Not only that, but its actually gotten cooler."

Tell that to Malibu, Mississippi, and Iowa.

"And no, more wildfires last year than the year before is not proof."

How 'bout the fact that those wildfires put our state in the red, and that we have to ration water because of them?
You could also try http://www.crooksandliars.com/index.php?s=Schwarzenegger+global+warming
for kicks.

comment #13

BurmaShave says ...

BNick says ...

I'll concede that the global warming deniers park close to the holocaust deniers if you concede that the people who compare global warming to the holocaust park even closer to the holocaust deniers.

Bnick ftw.

comment #14

D.Z. says ...

Bnick: "I'll concede that the global warming deniers park close to the holocaust deniers if you concede that the people who compare global warming to the holocaust park even closer to the holocaust deniers."

What? So six million people have to die from future tsunamis and levees breaking before you're convinced?

comment #15

Indeed says ...

D.Z. I would really like for you to explain how a 1 degree increase in temperature could possibly cause a tsunami.

To the best of my recollection, a tsunami is usually the result of the displacement of a large amount of water.

But then again what would I know. On the one hand I did go to college, but on the other hand I'm apparently a Holocaust denier.

comment #16

BNick says ...

You know, I've been hanging around these boards long enough that I should know what "ftw" means, but as it happens I don't.

comment #17

D.Z. says ...

Indeed: And the water being displaced is from those melted icecaps.

comment #18

D.Z. says ...

For the win.

comment #19

BNick says ...

Oh, well in that case thanks, Burma.

Though it seems a hollow victory without your vote, D.Z.

comment #20

Indeed says ...

D.Z.:"And the water being displaced is from those melted icecaps."

Those icecaps that melt ever so slowly?

I wonder what its like to live in your world.

comment #21

D.Z. says ...

Indeed: Yes, they're so slow in melting that those drowning polar bears will be able to find some land eventually...

comment #22

ianfairchild says ...

Global warming is the religion al gore created when he flunked out of divinity school. Wells and his like are nothing more than modern day puritans.

comment #23

frankbooth says ...

I ALSO THINK WE SHOULD EAT IRISH BABIES BECAUSE--

Oh, I give up. Dorothy Vallens is giggling. She says I bring it on myself because I'm "too subtle."

I CITED SOUTH PARK AS A REFERENCE. SOUTH PARK.

D.Z., ok. I expect that. But...shit. Et tu, Wells?

Walter and Massey and the gang are having a good laugh, I'm sure. I figured mgmax would cook up some clever comeback, but he probably has his hand folded behind his head and is chuckling softly. Circular firing squad, one...two...

Sitting here with black powder all over my face...kerblooey!

comment #24

D.Z. says ...

ian: "Global warming is the religion al gore created when he flunked out of divinity school."

Ironic. http://thinkprogress.org/2006/08/03/robertson-global-warming/

comment #25

PastePotPete says ...

I'm all for everyone getting to speak their mind but I think Wells had a good question in his post: why DO the extreme conservative posters come here? From their posts it seems they only read this site to have fodder to criticize Wells and his beliefs. If therse posters have such a lack of respect for his opinion why waste the time reading this site? It's not to change his mind, it's not because they love movies(most of the overtly political posters don't really seem to care about movies).

Serious question there. I'd like to know why. Because he's blasted by the same 5-8 people for pretty much everything he writes.

comment #26

SpinDozer says ...

"Most of the "deniers" I know take issue ...with unqualified, acrimoniouis, hypocritical, msnbc-watching amateurs without college degrees who look no farther than wikipedia for information declaring something as fact."

Bully for the deniers you know. If it had turned out that 'the scientific pursuit of the truth about warming' wasn't completely against their views, they wouldn't look like total assholes. Too bad.

comment #27

SpinDozer says ...

'why DO the extreme conservative posters come here?'

The answers you get should be saved for rainy days when you need a laugh. At least a few of them have already posted their apologia's. They really are priceless.

comment #28

quitstaringatme says ...

Modern science can't tell me with any accuracy whether or not it's gonna rain Tuesday, but can accurately predict global temperature for the next 100 years? I'm glad we're getting all hysterical about this issue!

And shit, even if the earth is getting warmer, it's pretty fucking presumptive to assume 100 years of industry have caused it. It's like saying the sea is too salty to drink because i just pissed it in. Give me a break.

And I like to troll Jeff's political views because I have no job, no girlfriend, and I literally have nothing better to do with my life.

comment #29

BNick says ...

Have you ever read a comments section of a blog frequented by people who all think the same way? Whether it's Daily Kos or Free Republic, it's mind-numbing. I think people who come on here generally crave debate.

Also have to disagree with your premise that the conservatives don't seem interested in movies. I rarely post (blocked at work) but I read the comments quite often. Part of what your seeing is Jeff posting more frequently on politics, so naturally it will seem like conservatives are attacking him. But I think most people on here, regardless of political allegiance, like Jeff and his writing. I wish he were more off-beat and unpredictable in his writings about politics as he is in his writing about movies, but that's not going to stop me from reading.

comment #30

frankbooth says ...

Is it unreasonable to expect some kind of apology? I feel I've been defamed.

Call me a facetious smartass, accuse me of failing to express myself clearly, slam me for a bad attempt at satire. But don't lump me in with the nelson37s and quitstaringatmes of the world.

I think I've been around here long enough to merit that.

I don't know what's more depressing: that my ridiculously exaggerated nonsensical "arguments" (yes, environmentalists are making soooo much more money than oil companies and have so much more incentive to lie) are close enough to the real thing to be taken seriously, or that everyone is so damned literal-minded today.

comment #31

SpinDozer says ...

'I think SpinDozer qualifies.'

I can hardly express my delight that you regard me as a troll (seeing as how you've been banned at least twice). Try winning an arguement sometime.

'anyone who approaches warming with even a hint of objectivity'

When deniers have even a hint of objectivity, your whining will be relevant.

comment #32

SpinDozer says ...

Frankenbooth, you facetious smartass, your post was an over-the-top lampoon of people who typically offer over-the-top asinine arguements to support their cause. I got it even tho I don't watch much South Park, but don't judge the others too harshly.

comment #33

D.Z. says ...

quit: "Modern science can't tell me with any accuracy whether or not it's gonna rain Tuesday, but can accurately predict global temperature for the next 100 years?"

Climatology is not the same as environmental science.

"And shit, even if the earth is getting warmer, it's pretty fucking presumptive to assume 100 years of industry have caused it. "

Yes, because industry can do no harm.

taster: "Notice the "deniers" in quotes, Dozebag, because anyone who approaches warming with even a hint of objectivity gets beaten down in typical, predictable fashion"

And why can't those evolutionists give Creationism a chance, huh?

frank: "(yes, environmentalists are making soooo much more money than oil companies and have so much more incentive to lie)"

How many environmentalists are worth billions?

comment #34

D.Z. says ...

Crap, I meant meteorology, not climatology.

comment #35

SpinDozer says ...

'I'm not saying I'm qualified to be (or interested in being) Wells' ombudsman'

Wells, you have created an environment hostile to right wingers and libertarians since you insist on publishing ideas that don't cleave to their dogma, please cease and desist or employ an Ombudsman to make a village where all are nurtured and welcome (especially warm and cuddly reactionaries). Have a Nice Day!

comment #36

frankbooth says ...

D.Z., read my fucking post. Actually READ it.

Ask Spindozer to explain to to you if you still don't get it. Then apologize.

What's that old joke about "please don't be on my side?"

comment #37

scooterzz says ...

seriously, i'm thinking this site has become more about people who love confrontation than about people who love movies....

comment #38

Mgmax says ...

"I figured mgmax would cook up some clever comeback, but he probably has his hand folded behind his head and is chuckling softly. Circular firing squad, one...two..."

I didn't even look in this one, I just watched the number go up from outside, and I knew that 28 of them would be D.Z.

comment #39

Mgmax says ...

"Global warming is the religion al gore created when he flunked out of divinity school. Wells and his like are nothing more than modern day puritans."

Not the first to have that thought here. I posted this a year ago:

I don't think it's a political issue at all. A political issue would be discussed in terms of tradeoffs, rational tactics, cost-benefit analyses, etc. Like in this piece: ">http://tinyurl.com/2bj59m

No, it's a religious issue. A religious crusade, decrying the sins of our self-indulgence and preaching God's wrath upon us from the heavens if we do not adopt a purer lifestyle. Belief is mandatory. Heretics are to be converted or silenced and punished. Everything-- warming, cooling, animal populations rising, animal populations falling-- is seen as proof of the indisputable truth. Though your and my lifestyle sins are lamented, the preachers are still allowed to sin themselves because, of course, their mission spreading the word by Gulfstream is more important. Savonarola rises again in the person of the next president of the United States, Al Gore, who will use this emergency to demand sweeping new powers to alter the economy and change our lives in thousands of meddling ways.

And quite probably, the temperature of the planet won't change a bit.

comment #40

SpinDozer says ...

"ignore my qualification for "denier" again. Say what again. I dare you."

You are confrontational. So butch.

Your quote:

"anyone who approaches warming with even a hint of objectivity gets beaten down in typical, predictable fashion (just as you are...predictable...bravo)"

I see no reason to invent & deploy novel and interesting "fashions" when you run a Center-Sneak for the 14th play in a row. Sorry that you get stuffed. Free hint: Maybe you otta consider developing an argument that wasn't hatched out of a Exxon-funded Think Tank?

comment #41

D.Z. says ...

Mgmax: "No, it's a religious issue. A religious crusade, decrying the sins of our self-indulgence and preaching God's wrath upon us from the heavens if we do not adopt a purer lifestyle."

Yes, conserving our resources and looking for efficient alternatives is a type of jihad. Genius.

"Belief is mandatory. Heretics are to be converted or silenced and punished."

If that's the case, why is the only people who've been punished by this administration are the pro-global warming scientists?

"Everything-- warming, cooling, animal populations rising, animal populations falling-- is seen as proof of the indisputable truth."

They're not really rising. They're facing extinction.

"Savonarola rises again in the person of the next president of the United States, Al Gore, who will use this emergency to demand sweeping new powers to alter the economy and change our lives in thousands of meddling ways."

Yes, fuel-efficiency is bad for the economy. Just look at Europe. Oh, wait...

comment #42

frankbooth says ...

I see there's no mention of your (repeated) blunder in your last post, D.Z.

I don't really expect any kind of exoneration from Wells. Pharoah's heart is not easily moved.

comment #43

D.Z. says ...

frank: Blunder?

comment #44

Indeed says ...

"I'm all for everyone getting to speak their mind but I think Wells had a good question in his post: why DO the extreme conservative posters come here? From their posts it seems they only read this site to have fodder to criticize Wells and his beliefs. If therse posters have such a lack of respect for his opinion why waste the time reading this site? It's not to change his mind, it's not because they love movies(most of the overtly political posters don't really seem to care about movies)."

I read this site at least a few times a day. For the lack of a better word, you could say that Im "addicted" to it. Been reading Jeff's columns since the Reel.com days. Never really post much on Jeff's actual movie posts because 99% of the time I agree with him. Dont see the point of taking the time to log in simply to say "Hey Jeff, I agree."

Even on a lot of Jeff's political posts, I dont bother logging in and posting a reply because, unlike him, I'm very tolerant of other people's views. As an extremely conservative person (which means I cant stand modern "conservatives" or "republicans") it's part of my philosophy. Jeff wants to believe in MMGW and the notion that Obama bathes in the blood of Christ on a daily basis thats a-o-k with me. As most traditional conservatives...actual conservatives...I have no problem admitting that I may not be correct about everything, and I have admitted as much in my past posts.

But when Jeff flies off the handle and, on the one hand, talks about "Blue State Sensibility" at the same time he not only questions the intelligence of those who dont believe in exactly what he believes in, but compares them to Holocaust deniers, child rapists, or people that murder clergymen...well I dont mind logging in and reminding him that there are a lot of people out there who are much smarter than he is that dont agree with him.

comment #45

bents75 says ...

People who murder clergymen? Where did that come from? Did I miss that post? How is that any worse than someone who murders anyone else?

What about people who murder child raping clergymen? They get a pass in my book.

I think the most borderline retarded thing about people denying or even questioning Global Warming is that you're the ones doing so at risk.

We have faulty evidence Saddam has weapons of mass destruction - pretty damn inconclusive though - so conservatives say fuck it, lets invade the country anyway. We can always claim we're liberating them if it doesn't work out.

But when modern civilzation and the endangerment of humanity itself is 'arguably' in peril - and the means you would use to stop it are by their very design meant to help the planet one way or the other, you don't want to err on the side of caution and be safe rather than sorry - you just want to keep asking questions.

comment #46

Indeed says ...

bents75, where in my post did you see anything about me not erring on the side of caution? Im all for alternative energy sources, lower emissions, etc. Award grants for private research or provide various incentives for big oil to help with the research. If not for this reason then for a number of others we dont need to list here.

When you start to dictate social domestic policy and attempt to restrict what we can do on a day to day basis, levy taxes where they are not deserved, etc then you are crossing a line.

And by the way, saying we should act drastically now (with potential restriction of our day-to-day lives, damaging our already fragile economy, etc) because of the possibility of MMGW because we erroneously invaded Iraq for no good reason doesnt make a whole lot of sense. I am reminded of an anecdote about two wrongs....

comment #47

Mgmax says ...

I'd stack my rightwing behavior against most folks here. I drive a Prius, rehabbed my house to be more energy efficient (it's the one with the light-colored roof and the only one where the AC isn't running right now), I hardly fly anywhere any more, I by most of my produce at farmer's markets All in all I'd put my footprint up against, oh, folks who go to a lot of film festivals.

Is saving energy and being more efficient smart? Sure. Is it necessary to wreck our economy because of the scare predictions of Al Gore? No, I lived through the 70s when global cooling was the fear, not global warming, when the Crash of '79 was looming, when you could sharpen your razor blades in a pyramid.

As that column I linked to in my old post put it: in the history of trade-offs, never has there been a better one than trading a tiny amount of global warming for a massive amount of global prosperity.

Earth got about 0.7 degrees Celsius warmer in the 20th century while it increased its GDP by 1,800 percent, by one estimate. How much of that 0.7 degrees can be laid at the feet of that 1,800 percent is unknowable, but let’s stipulate that all of the warming was the result of our prosperity and that this warming is in fact indisputably bad (which is hardly obvious).

That’s still an amazing bargain. Life expectancies in the United States increased from about 47 years to about 77 years. Literacy, medicine, leisure and even, in many respects, the environment have improved mightily over the course of the 20th century, at least in the prosperous West.

That's why small incremental changes are the enemy of the global warming sorts-- because they can have benefits as well as costs. Instead, they have to predict massive, catastrophic changes-- only that will be a crisis big enough to give them the power over the rest of us that they crave.

Well, the evidence that warming will lead to these massive changes in the short, politicaly useful time frame they envision-- "We have 10 years to save the planet!"-- is simply laughably thin. Warming may or may not be manmade, but the hysteria definitely is.

comment #48

bb says ...

The de facto conflict that is coming together is between developed and developing countries. People in India that are just trying to feed their kids don't give a damn about some elitists' efforts to offset the carbon footprint of their 10,000 square foot home. They don't care who's drinking bottled water. They just don't want any of these bright ideas to keep them from feeding their kids.

And a lot of people in developed countries are perfectly happy to slow or stop the advancement needed to accomplish that kid feeding. When you believe that the FUTURE OF THE EARTH hinges on these issues, it is a lot easier.

comment #49

frankbooth says ...

Are you being willfully obtuse, D.Z.?

Actually, I'm being a fool for even bothering. But we've both been here a long time, and I know you're not going anywhere, so looks like I'm stuck dealing with you.

You continued to address me as if I were making a serious point even after I EXPLICITLY STATED THAT MY ENTIRE ORIGINAL POST WAS A JOKE. I can see making the mistake the first time (though by now you might have noticed that I've NEVER posted anything remotely right-wing or Republican) because I'm not the type to tip my hand and say "lol" or "just kidding!" But to do it immediately after my third post...this makes you appear to be an utter dolt who responds without actually reading what it is you're responding to.

Everyone knows you're obsessive and stubborn and have rather bizarre though processess, but I have never thought that you were actually stupid, as in possessing a low I.Q.

Until now.

This has now become the dumbest thread in the history of this site.

comment #50

SpinDozer says ...

'some elitists' efforts to offset the carbon footprint of their 10,000 square foot home.'

Its quite obvious that the 100 nobel laureates that signed the World Scientists' Call For Action 10 years ago and the thousands of scientists that produce the IPCC report are elitists looking to spice up their pathetic boring lives with a little excitement.

comment #51

bb says ...

Its quite obvious that the 100 nobel laureates that signed the World Scientists' Call For Action 10 years ago and the thousands of scientists that produce the IPCC report are elitists looking to spice up their pathetic boring lives with a little excitement.

Are you being ironic or genuinely do not get it? Yawn.

comment #52

mizerock says ...

> Enviro-nazis, "making FAR more annually than the oil companies"

Man, I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried, that's an awesome line. Why buy Exxon stock? The real money is in book tours, man! Hilarious stuff.

And environmentalists need to bike from city to city and never use a/c, or else they are hypocrites and must be completely ignored! I've always loved that argument too - damned if you do, damned if you don't. Good times.

comment #53

SpinDozer says ...

Are you being ironic or genuinely do not get it? Yawn.

Wakey wakey. Why on earth would you accuse the scientists or the people that think the scientists findings are relavant of being "elitist"?

comment #54

SpinDozer says ...

Are you being ironic or genuinely do not get it? Yawn.

Wakey wakey. Why on earth would you accuse the scientists or the people that think the scientists findings are relevant of being "elitist"?

comment #55

SpinDozer says ...

Frankenbooth:

You cannot stop it so just enjoy.

comment #56

D.Z. says ...

Mgmax: "Is it necessary to wreck our economy because of the scare predictions of Al Gore?"

That's completely misleading. You can be energy-efficient and prosperous. Look at how Toyota is beating the Big Three auto companies. In fact, capitalism can only work when business improves upon itself, not sticks to antiquated methods.

"As that column I linked to in my old post put it: in the history of trade-offs, never has there been a better one than trading a tiny amount of global warming for a massive amount of global prosperity."

So our running out of crops and water is a form of prosperity?

"Life expectancies in the United States increased from about 47 years to about 77 years. Literacy, medicine, leisure and even, in many respects, the environment have improved mightily over the course of the 20th century, at least in the prosperous West."

And it's heading in the opposite direction in the Third World.

comment #57

nelson37 says ...

Nelson37 to gruver1. Jeff, you are absolutely right and I am absolutely wrong. You are a genius and I am an idiot. You are pure as snow and I am scum of the Earth. You are the master and I am nothing. I clearly do not deserve to live on the planet because I had the stupidity to agree with the late George Carlin about environmental extremism. Carlin once said "The planet isn't going anywhere. We are." I should have known he was just a comedian and not a brilliant scientist like yourself. I think I'll do the only right thing and kill myself. Yes, that is the right thing to do. I will have to blow my brains out. Goodbye, Cruel World.

BANG!

comment #58

D.Z. says ...

Carlin said it in an act.

comment #59

Josh Massey says ...

"And it's heading in the opposite direction in the Third World."

No. It's not. At all.

comment #60

frankbooth says ...

I kinda like "frankenbooth." I'll have to use it in some future online existence.

D.Z., you can run but you can't hide. Fucker.

comment #61

D.Z. says ...

Josh: http://www.news.wisc.edu/11878
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=21448&Cr=climate&Cr1

comment #62

goodbye says ...

I thought I couldn't be amazed by the level of political garbage spewed out on this site by you Jeff. But to compare people who disagree with you on a topic that, very likely, no one on this website is well-informed enough to judge to Holocaust deniers is ludicrous.

I have waded through your political bullshit for years, even following you from reel.com because of the occasional movie review. But no more.

I will no longer be perusing your site. And as a parting comment, it tends to get hot in Texas in the summer. Even before the horrors of "man-made global warming."

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