comment #1

Richardson says ...

"if Obama had truly man-sized cojones"

Jeff, I'd put money on your inability to go a day without posting something like this.

comment #2

Jake Gittes says ...

I'll keep it short. I was a Giuliani guy who will support McCain. If Obama were to pick Clinton (no chance, he never asked for her SS# or favorite flavor of ice cream ) it would be a slam dunk guaranteed win. Wish my side had such a sure thing. No matter who wins - I still get to wake up a citizen of the greatest country in the world. I mean that.

comment #3

Jake Gittes says ...

I'll keep it short. I was a Giuliani guy who will support McCain. If Obama were to pick Clinton (no chance, he never asked for her SS# or favorite flavor of ice cream ) it would be a slam dunk guaranteed win. Wish my side had such a sure thing. No matter who wins - I still get to wake up a citizen of the greatest country in the world. I mean that.

comment #4

cm65 says ...

Are you saying you actually want him to pick Joe Biden, Jeff? He's one of the most self-important gasbags in Congress, which is saying something. Anyone familiar with him knows he would be guaranteed to do and/or say something stupid and embarrassing on a daily basis. If Obama picks him, he will lose, period.

comment #5

T. S. Idiot says ...

From Sept. 18, 1987 NYT about Biden's plagiarism scandal:

"To buttress his assertions of sincerity and openness, Mr. Biden released a 65-page file, obtained by the Senator from the Syracuse University College of Law, that he said contained all the records of his years there. It disclosed relatively poor grades in college and law school, mixed evaluations from teachers and details of the plagiarism."

"The file distributed by the Senator included a law school faculty report, dated Dec. 1, 1965, that concluded that Mr. Biden had ''used five pages from a published law review article without quotation or attribution'' and that he ought to be failed in the legal methods course for which he had submitted the 15-page paper.

The plagiarized article, ''Tortious Acts as a Basis for Jurisdiction in Products Liability Cases,'' was published in the Fordham Law Review of May 1965. Mr. Biden drew large chunks of heavy legal prose directly from it, including such sentences as: ''The trend of judicial opinion in various jurisdictions has been that the breach of an implied warranty of fitness is actionable without privity, because it is a tortious wrong upon which suit may be brought by a non-contracting party.'' Just One Footnote

In his paper, Mr. Biden included a single footnote to the Fordham Law Review article.

In a letter defending himself, dated Nov. 30, 1965, Mr. Biden pleaded with the faculty not to dismiss him from the school.

''My intent was not to deceive anyone,'' Mr. Biden wrote. ''For if it were, I would not have been so blatant.''

At another point, the young Mr. Biden said that ''if I had intended to cheat, would I have been so stupid?''

''I value my word above all else,'' the impassioned letter said. ''This is a fact which is known to all those who are or have been acquainted with my character.'' Misunderstanding, He Says

Mr. Biden said today, as he did 22 years ago, that he had misunderstood the rules of citation and footnoting. "

And he wants to be our Latex salesman.

comment #6

George Prager says ...

I'll keep it short (oops I posted twice!)

comment #7

broadstreetbully says ...

I realize I'm committing a pointless act by hoping for any actual intelligence from Jeffrey Wells, but I suppose I'll try anway and ask: what's wrong with Chet Edwards?

He's a strong liberal, notedly passionate about the separation of church and state, a personal favorite of Nancy Pelosi's, and he went to Harvard.

Are you REALLY that kneejerk stupid that just because he's from Texas you don't like him?

comment #8

T. S. Idiot says ...

"Are you REALLY that kneejerk stupid that just because he's from Texas you don't like him?"

Wells favorite Wes Anderson is from Texas. Rip Torn. Sissy S. Reneee Z. Uh, forget that last one.

comment #9

broadstreetbully says ...

Then why would "a part of us all die inside" if he picked Chet Edwards?

comment #10

bents75 says ...

TS Idiot : Are you seriously shooting down Biden because of a citation error from 43 years ago?

Is that the best you have? That's a scandal?

Maybe if he shoots someone in the face people will focus on that instead...oh wait, no they won't, nevermind.

comment #11

dangovich says ...

Are you saying you actually want him to pick Joe Biden, Jeff? He's one of the most self-important gasbags in Congress, which is saying something.

I agree. I remember watching him during the Anita Hill hearings and being astonished by his gasbaggery.

Andrew Bacevich, now he would be a great choice.

comment #12

Chapman Carruthers says ...

>>>Wells favorite Wes Anderson is from Texas. Rip Torn. Sissy S. Reneee Z.

Let's add to that list the legendary, indefatigable commenter Chapman Carruthers. That makes 5 good ones out of a state of 24 million. Having spent my childhood there, the odds of us finding a sixth aren't very good. Chet Edwards, as is evidenced by his policies, his subcommittee work, and his desire to turn the US into a military state, is about as far from making the list as T. Boone Pickens.

comment #13

JoeJustice says ...

The JFK-LBJ example is used by people who have no true sense of history. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. All analogies stink, but that one in particular is silly.

Obama has the biggest balls in the world for not even vetting Hillary. And we all know it.

Why should he have even considered someone he cannot trust as his VP? Here is an egomaniac and deeply cynical person who cannot be trusted to be a team player.

It doesn't help she has a bitter, batshit husband who can't stay on message (and who praises McCain's energy policy???).

Poor losers don't get the spoils.

Whoever Obama picks will be better than any of John McCain's lame possibilities, even Chet Edwards.

comment #14

T. S. Idiot says ...

Biden was also accused of using parts of a speech by Brit politico Neil Kinnock without attribution. There's a pattern of behavior there.

I'm opposed to Biden because he adds nothing to Obama's chances. If this is Barry's first big decision and it's a weak one brought on by compromises, what does that say about his potential presidency?

Speaking of patterns, could the senator's spare follicles have anything to do with Wells' anti-Biden stance?

comment #15

broadstreetbully says ...

What policies, Chapman? What subcommittee work? Details, you stupid monkey, details!

comment #16

sardine says ...

chet edwards chet edwards chet edwards ???

comment #17

JHRussell says ...

Jeff, I can't believe it myself, but I agree with you...yes, please be Biden!

But I assume I am hoping for Biden for the opposite reasons you are...Biden is a liberal hack who represents insider DC at its worst....this is the kind of "change" we can expect from Barry Obama?

comment #18

Mgmax says ...

"Just like (and I've mentioned this four or five times previously, I know) JFK sucked it in and got the conniving, wheeler-dealing Lyndon Johnson to be his vp."

Yes, and because he did that, on November 22, 1963 a better man became president, and connived and wheeled and dealed and implemented the civil rights policies that Kennedy had barely been courageous enough to pay lip service to, let alone expend political capital making happen.

For this Johnson ought to have earned the praise and admiration of all good liberals. But because he was from Texas, and liberals were mostly Yankee elitists and snobs, they mocked him mercilessly for his manners and they attacked him as a baby-killer, destroying the liberal coalition on cultural lines and condemning their party to minority status for 40 years. Nixon would never have had a Southern strategy if the Democratic party hadn't first expelled the South like a rotten grape (and, of course, continued to mock presidents with Southern roots as hicks and morons to this day).

Now the elitists have their candidate, and they can't even be gracious toward the (very, very nominally) more centrist and downscale candidate, but have to mock her and her voters every step of the way as uneducated rubes. Proving that even if they win, the culture war that started then is still raging to this day.

comment #19

broadstreetbully says ...

JFK wasn't half the man, or half the liberal, that LBJ was. He was from Boston, though, so easily-duped Northeastern rubes (Wells being a primary example) were fooled, as they always are. They should be pitied and disregarded.

That being said, I do agree generally with Jeff's contention that Obama needs a fighter, a la Clinton or Biden. Obama really needs to get out of his naive, Col. Blimp-ish "but the war starts at midnight" routine and start fightin'.

comment #20

clancy says ...

Joejustice- What is wrong with the Kennedy-LBJ analogy?

comment #21

JHRussell says ...

Chet Edwards has a voting record to the right of John McCain...not sure that libs will be too happy with that, and I am fairly certain that it will have no pull on independents or moderate republicans...other than being a big surprise, I don't see how this would be a good move for Obama...

Chet Edwards smells an awful lot like Dan Quayle to me...Obama will have to spend the next month explaining who Edwards is, and I don't think that he has time for that...

Go, Chet, go!!!

comment #22

Mgmax says ...

"Chet Edwards smells an awful lot like Dan Quayle to me...Obama will have to spend the next month explaining who Edwards is, and I don't think that he has time for that..."

Yes, that's the problem. The ticket really doesn't need two guys who suddenly became famous after doing precisely nothing noteworthy until that moment.

comment #23

LYT says ...

"Nixon would never have had a Southern strategy if the Democratic party hadn't first expelled the South like a rotten grape (and, of course, continued to mock presidents with Southern roots as hicks and morons to this day)."

Funny, the right had no problem mocking Southern accents and hillbillies when Clinton was president.

comment #24

Mgmax says ...

I'd like to see ONE pre-Monica example of that, LYT, that remotely compares to the Bush-is-an-idjit-hick commentary that has been rife throughout his presidency.

I admit, once Clinton had zipper trouble and had to run like a traveling salesman fleeing the shotgun of the farmer whose daughter he'd just knocked up (like father like son!), the stereotypes flew a little more. But prior to that, it was good establishment liberals like Sally Quinn who were mocking his southernness, not the Newt Gingrichs and Tom DeLays.

On the subject of Howard Zinn, never miss an opportunity to link to this:

http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2003/04/22fellowship.html

comment #25

broadstreetbully says ...

Again, what is this voting record of Chet's that's to the right of McCain's? Everyone keeps saying this, but no one cites examples.

comment #26

broadstreetbully says ...

"Chet Edwards smells an awful lot like Dan Quayle to me...Obama will have to spend the next month explaining who Edwards is, and I don't think that he has time for that..."

And I HATE this ridiculous notion that VP picks have to be famous, well-known figures. Al Gore was almost a complete unknown nationally in 1991; that didn't hurt. Cheney wasn't exactly a household name, and he helped Bush's ticket (as hard as that is to understand). VP's are NOT supposed to distract from the nominee, but instead subtly, quietly, but firmly back him up or fight for him. No celebrity needed.

comment #27

JHRussell says ...

"And I HATE this ridiculous notion that VP picks have to be famous, well-known figures. Al Gore was almost a complete unknown nationally in 1991; that didn't hurt. Cheney wasn't exactly a household name, and he helped Bush's ticket (as hard as that is to understand). VP's are NOT supposed to distract from the nominee, but instead subtly, quietly, but firmly back him up or fight for him. No celebrity needed."

Not necessary to be famous (but your examples of Gore and Cheney are way off the mark - Cheney had been a congressman and house minority whip and then Secy of Defense for GHWB, and Gore had been nationally known for years).

The problem with picking an unknown is twofold: first, this guy has never been pubicly vetted by a media grilling, and second, because the conventions are a month later than usual this year, there is far less time to spend "introducing" an unknown like Chet...

The comparison to Quayle is a very real one...

comment #28

George Prager says ...

"Nixon would never have had a Southern strategy if the Democratic party hadn't first expelled the South like a rotten grape (and, of course, continued to mock presidents with Southern roots as hicks and morons to this day)."

Anybody remember Jimmy Carter? Bill Clinton?
P.S. The Southern strategy was basically letting Strom Thurmond call the shots. (As Gore Vidal said of Spiro Agnew: "Though firm with niggers, how would he be on other issues?")

"Al Gore was almost a complete unknown nationally in 1991; that didn't hurt"
.
Wrong. Gore ran for President in 1988. Won a few states. Also well-known because of his and Tipper's involvement in the PMRC, which was front page news.

comment #29

Chapman Carruthers says ...

Maybe it has something to do with the way you ask:

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/e000063/key-votes/

Chester is the Chairman of the Military Construction and Veterans Affairs Appropriations Subcommittee and a member of the House Appropriations Subcommittee on Homeland Security. (uh oh).

His record shows he has an unflinching loyalty to the military, wait... scratch that, an unflinching loyalty to a President determined to use military forces as an instrument of american economic policy. Specifically, look at the following.

Vote 836: S 1927
Vote 425: H R 2206
Vote 508: S 3930
Vote 502: H R 5825
Vote 288: H RES 861

These votes are just related to the use of the military and foreign and domestic surveillance measures. I haven't even begun to comment on his less-than-liberal positions on immigration, environmental rights, flag burning, corporatism, the estate tax, and god knows what else.

My personal failings prevent me from coming up with any more original material. A personal failing I've had since I was Joe Biden's law school roommate. But, I hear, all sorts of reliable political information can be found on this thing... (whispering)... called (hand over mouth).... the... eeen-tu'rd-net.

comment #30

Mgmax says ...

"Anybody remember Jimmy Carter? Bill Clinton?"

Yes, and unlike you selective-memory types, I remember how the elite-liberal journalism establishment made fun of them from day 1.

comment #31

bents75 says ...

"Yes, that's the problem. The ticket really doesn't need two guys who suddenly became famous after doing precisely nothing noteworthy until that moment."

Precisely nothing noteworthy? Bullshit. You taking your cues directly from McCain campaign ads now MgMax? I seriously hope this is yet another poorly designed bit of sarcasm on your part.

For starters he fully learned the English language, and apparently knows how to use it. I realize the standard for communication has been set low recently by certain individuals in power, but I'd say that's one 'noteworthy' accomplishment - on top of others.

I for one look forward to understanding what the fuck my President is talking about.

Shall we move on to noteworthy example two?

comment #32

George Prager says ...

"Yes, and unlike you selective-memory types, I remember how the elite-liberal journalism establishment made fun of them from day 1."

Goddamn elite-liberal journalism establishment! Those fuckers!

comment #33

Richardson says ...

That's hands down the worst defense of Obama I've ever heard. Are you a Chris Rock routine from the mid '90's? "He speaks so well!"

comment #34

Chris D. says ...

JFK wanted Stuart Symington. LBJ was forced on him by the party at the convention.

comment #35

JHRussell says ...

"That's hands down the worst defense of Obama I've ever heard. Are you a Chris Rock routine from the mid '90's? "He speaks so well!""

Hell, that sounds a lot like the backhanded race card "clean and articulate" comment from VP contender Joe Biden...

comment #36

Sean E says ...

"For starters he fully learned the English language, and apparently knows how to use it. "

Well now, if he can also go potty by himself and ride a two-wheeler, I think we've got ourselves a President!

comment #37

bents75 says ...

No, my point was just that rather than once again list all of his accomplishments, I'd start with the basics, which the current Commander and Chief himself can't even handle.

You're the one twisting it around.

comment #38

Mgmax says ...

"For starters he fully learned the English language, and apparently knows how to use it. I realize the standard for communication has been set low recently by certain individuals in power, but I'd say that's one 'noteworthy' accomplishment - on top of others."

You've convinced me.

David Axelrod should be president.

comment #39

Joshua Mooney says ...

Wells said: "Because then, at least, BHO would have a genuine shot at winning..."

Because he picks Clinton? Jesus, man, your defeatism sucks, and it souds way too familiar.

Biden is toxic. Hillary-BO/JFK-LBJ comparisons are nuts.

comment #40

Richardson says ...

bents - I *love* the indignant assumption that your joke was too subtle and flew over our heads.

comment #41

Sean E says ...

"No, my point was just that rather than once again list all of his accomplishments, "

No, go ahead. List them all. I'm sure we all have the time.

comment #42

bents75 says ...

Given how low the bar has been set by all of your GOP voters. I would vote for David Axelrod.

He's clearly a better judge of character based on who he chooses to work with than the current Republican President and presumptive nominee.

Hell, I would sooner write in a vote for you Mgmax than Grandpa McCain, and I generally loathe you.

So, suck on that !

comment #43

Majorian99 says ...

It would impress the hell out of me if Barack Obama would pick Hilary for VP. I mean, clever, realistic, idealism backed up by a smart, fiercely experienced powerhouse that is Hilary Clinton. Nitro meets Glycerin. USA would be theoretically unbeatable in the battle of the worlds problems... Isn't that the better bet against a tortured old man who presents only a marginally better future than W?

How can anyone be undecided on this...? Great mystery...?

comment #44

dinther says ...

Somewhere amidst the clatter here someone said something about Biden being "self-important."

This poster has no idea what he or she is talking about. That couldn't be further from the truth. Biden has a rep on the hill as salt-of-the-earth, lunchpail and blue-collar. He takes the fricking train in from DELAWARE each morning rather than live in DC. He is the 99th least wealthy person in the Senate. You may dislike him for policy reasons or whatever, but "self-important" is just about the last adjective anyone who knows him would apply.

Read this, by a right-leaning writer. It's a pretty fair description.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/22/opinion/22brooks.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Read this

comment #45

bill weber says ...

In contrast to the empty pantsuit that is HillRod, LBJ actually accomplished laudable, liberal goals.

Biden is a waterboy for credit card companies. CHANGE!

comment #46

Ray says ...

I want him to choose Ron Paul. It might actually completely unravel the two party system ... and not a moment too soon.

comment #47

ZayTonday says ...

I wouldn't say the clean and articulate has less to do with Obama being black (and thus somehow having a perceived lower standard) and more to do with our current white president speaking like a dimwitted moron.

comment #48

ZayTonday says ...

correction: i *would* say that the "clean and articulate" remark

comment #49

Balthazar says ...

DRUDGE

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comment #50

Chapman Carruthers says ...

Dinther, i'm glad you spoke up about Biden. The fact that most everyone on this board dismisses him because of either a plagarized paper, bad hair plugs, or a lack of sufficient pomp surrounding him is pretty pathetic. He's one of the few people in the Democratic party that actually, actively, advocates for the middle and lower classes. If you guys are democrats, you need to do some more research on Biden so you can figure out for yourselves he's one of the good guys.

And for what's its worth, I plagarized over half of my law school papers. It's a tedious program designed to turn creative minds into objectivist shit shovelers. The only lawyer I'm going to criticize is the one that says he enjoyed the process and thought it was intellectually stimulating. I imagine Biden was better than that, and chose to spend the time he could have used slaving away on some point-counterpoint-countercounterpoint paper doing something more worthwhile. Like reading Chomsky and banging hot chicks.

Take that sob/chok/jayhawk.

comment #51

Richardson says ...

Zay - again, I *got* the joke. It wasn't subtle. But it wasn't funny. So I brought up a joke that was funny that it reminded me of. The racist aspect was an extra bonus joke.

comment #52

Richardson says ...

(And, incidentally, have you seen Obama speak without a teleprompter? I don't think "articulate" and "well-spoken" should be your go-to best feature for him.)

comment #53

va says ...

As a blue state independent, I will absolutely vote for John McCain if BO picks Hillary - I do not care how much shit I get from Jeff or DZ - there's no way I will ever vote for her or her piece-of-shit husband (remember, "Buy one, get one free?") - a lot more people will die a little inside if he picks her. I want change - BO will be the same pussy as every other Dem that's run for President in my voting lifetime has been- Carter, Dukakis, Mondale, Gore, Kerry.....

comment #54

cm65 says ...

I would be the one who called Biden self-important, and I stand by it. So he's not the richest guy in the Senate? It doesn't change the fact that he's hopelessly in love with the sound of his own voice, and thinks everyone else should be, too. Watch him on C-SPAN, and you'll see someone who drones on for 1,000 words, when 100 will do.

The NYT article by their pet pseudo-conservative David Brooks says that he "has said a number of idiotic things over the years." Richard Cohen wrote that he suffers from "manic-obsessive running of the mouth." That's my point. Rich or poor, a gasbag is a gasbag.

Joe Biden on the campaign trail would be a constant source of nuggets of ridiculous nonsense that would sink Obama.

comment #55

D.Z. says ...

"Just like JFK sucked it in and got the slippery, conniving, wheeler-dealing Lyndon Johnson to be his vp."

I don't think using a JFK and Johnson analogy with Obama and Hillary is a good idea, especially after her RFK comment and after what happened to JFK in Johnson's state...

Idiot: "From Sept. 18, 1987 NYT about Biden's plagiarism scandal:"

Colin Powell plagiarized, too...Also, it's hypocritical to take to task Biden's academic record after electing a C student from Yale...And I can believe that he didn't get how to cite references, given how crappy the American education's turned out to be in the last couple of decades.

"Biden was also accused of using parts of a speech by Brit politico Neil Kinnock without attribution."

And how many "scientists" connected to Big Oil did Bush use to argue re-write global warming policy?

"If this is Barry's first big decision and it's a weak one brought on by compromises, what does that say about his potential presidency?"

No one seemed to complain about Edwards' and Hillary's "compromise" which led to the war...

Mgmax: "Yes, and because he did that, on November 22, 1963 a better man became president, and connived and wheeled and dealed and implemented the civil rights policies that Kennedy had barely been courageous enough to pay lip service to, let alone expend political capital making happen.

For this Johnson ought to have earned the praise and admiration of all good liberals. But because he was from Texas, and liberals were mostly Yankee elitists and snobs, they mocked him mercilessly for his manners and they attacked him as a baby-killer, destroying the liberal coalition on cultural lines and condemning their party to minority status for 40 years."

Well, if LBJ hadn't started an unpopular war, he'd be remembered differently.

"Nixon would never have had a Southern strategy if the Democratic party hadn't first expelled the South like a rotten grape (and, of course, continued to mock presidents with Southern roots as hicks and morons to this day)."

We're they the ones who called Bill Bubba and made fun of Carter's canoe ride?

"I'd like to see ONE pre-Monica example of that, LYT,"

Just look through the back of an old American Spectator from that decade.

"Yes, and unlike you selective-memory types, I remember how the elite-liberal journalism establishment made fun of them from day 1."

Were they the same liberal media which let Nixon do whatever he wanted until he got caught?

comment #56

Mgmax says ...

"Were they the same liberal media which let Nixon do whatever he wanted until he got caught?"

Like what, the Earned Income Tax Credit?

comment #57

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