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No Beating Around
"I loved The Prestige but didn't understand The Dark Knight," Robert Downey, Jr. said to a Moviehole correspondent two weeks ago. "Didn't get it, still can't tell you what happened in the movie, what happened to the character and in the end they need him to be a bad guy. I'm like, 'I get it. This is so highbrow and so fucking smart, I clearly need a college education to understand this movie.' You know what? Fuck DC comics. That's all I have to say and that's where I'm really coming from."
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next >>Fair Question
Posted by Jeffrey Wells on August 17, 2008 at 7:24 PM
comment #1
Josh Massey says ...
Damn, I would have loved to see him as The Riddler.
Posted by Josh Massey at August 17, 2008 7:38 PM
comment #2
Mgmax says ...
I felt the same way. There were a lot of people standing around saying this or that person was now a bad guy, but I rarely saw why compared to what they'd previously been doing as, say, a vigilante in a scary costume beating the crap out of people extralegally.
Posted by Mgmax at August 17, 2008 7:39 PM
comment #3
p.Vice says ...
His comments are clearly code for "If only it had a fucking cloning machine!!!" Lamentable indeed.
Posted by p.Vice at August 17, 2008 7:41 PM
comment #4
insidah says ...
I think I prefer my Batman a little more Burton, a little more fun. Christopher Nolan, I imagine, is not a particularly humorous individual.
Posted by insidah at August 17, 2008 7:46 PM
comment #5
Josh Massey says ...
Wait, is this the backlash starting? I had August 21st in the pool.
Posted by Josh Massey at August 17, 2008 7:49 PM
comment #6
MDOC says ...
I like this kind of stuff, Iron Man is wearing a silver medal this summer while Batman holds the gold, let Downey get his digs in. However I can't let Downey get away with saying he needed a college education to see The Dark Knight. How does he know it isn't just a high school graduation required? He doesn't have either.
Posted by MDOC at August 17, 2008 7:52 PM
comment #7
Chase Kahn says ...
Wow. Maybe Robert and I could get together and I'll explain the movie to him...
Posted by Chase Kahn at August 17, 2008 8:03 PM
comment #8
MilkMan says ...
I haven't seen The Dark Knight. I can't find a babysitter. Not that it makes a difference. I have a Master's Degree and I didn't understand Primer. Or Donnie Darko. So maybe I'll skip TDK and stick with watching The Emerald Forest and Sydney White.
Posted by MilkMan at August 17, 2008 8:05 PM
comment #9
moviemaniac2002 says ...
Hot damn, I am sooooo glad that I'm nto the
only one who found "Dark Knight" tiresome
and confusing. Take Heath Ledger's galvanizing performance out this film and all you have is
a longer, drearier, darker re-hash of "Batman
Begins"...and I didn't think that one was any
fun to watch either.
Bravo to Iron Man for pointing out that the
Dark Emporer has no clothes.
Posted by moviemaniac2002 at August 17, 2008 8:08 PM
comment #10
Chase Kahn says ...
I guess THE DARK KNIGHT should have ended with Bale saying "I am Batman" then, huh...
Posted by Chase Kahn at August 17, 2008 8:09 PM
comment #11
moviemaniac2002 says ...
Hot damn, I am sooooo glad that I'm not the
only one who found "Dark Knight" tiresome
and confusing. Take Heath Ledger's galvanizing performance out this film and all you have is
a longer, drearier, darker re-hash of "Batman
Begins"...and I didn't think that one was any
fun to watch or any great shakes either.
Bravo to Iron Man for pointing out that the
Dark Emporer has no clothes.
Posted by moviemaniac2002 at August 17, 2008 8:09 PM
comment #12
btwnproductions says ...
Hellboy kicks both their sorry super-asses.
Posted by btwnproductions at August 17, 2008 8:11 PM
comment #13
Chapman Carruthers says ...
How dare that jealous, high school dropout speak out of line. Can't he see that the movie has a perfectly sensible message lamenting governmental abuses of power. Well except for all that lying to the public, extraterritorial rendition, and domestic spying stuff.
Posted by Chapman Carruthers at August 17, 2008 8:23 PM
comment #14
Gaydos says ...
Somewhere in NYC, David Edelstein just sat back in his Brancusi chair and muttered, "Duh! You think so!??!!?!?"
Posted by Gaydos at August 17, 2008 8:23 PM
comment #15
Stephe96 says ...
He didn't understand 'The Dark Knight?' Jeez, even a "full retard" could follow that plot!
Posted by Stephe96 at August 17, 2008 8:31 PM
comment #16
Chase Kahn says ...
Yeah, I bet even Simple Jack could understand the depth of the sacrifice Batman is making to save gotham!
Posted by Chase Kahn at August 17, 2008 8:42 PM
comment #17
Filmsnob says ...
Ahh, Poor Robert suffers from the Green Eyed Monster.
Posted by Filmsnob at August 17, 2008 9:38 PM
comment #18
jimjonesiii says ...
I hope he wasn´t high when he saw the film.
Posted by jimjonesiii at August 17, 2008 9:49 PM
comment #19
D.Z. says ...
Insert comment involving old ad about your brain on drugs here.
Posted by D.Z. at August 17, 2008 9:50 PM
comment #20
redmond says ...
Robert Downey Jr., may have bit the hand that will (eventually) feed him. Guy Ritchie's Sherlock Holmes starring RDJ is a Warner Bros. film who owns DC Comics. Whoops!
Then again, after reading his recent interview in Rolling Stone, it sounds like Robert Downey, Jr. just says shit for the hell of it to get a reaction. That said, Dark Knight was a better film (saw it for 2nd time last night) than Iron Man, but Robert Downey Jr. was to IM what Heath Ledger was to TDK. Only so much that their absence would've sunk either film.
Posted by redmond at August 17, 2008 10:08 PM
comment #21
frankbooth says ...
Sounds like Downey's goofing around, trying to create an Oasis vs Blur thing. Or maybe he really is mad that he had his box-office thunder stolen. Until Dark Knight, Iron Man was the success story of the summer.
MM, we all know why you like The Emerald Forest. Same reason I do.
Posted by frankbooth at August 17, 2008 10:12 PM
comment #22
D.Z. says ...
Anyway, Downey has nothing to be jealous of, because people's expectations for Iron Man 2 will probably be lower than their expectations for Batman Rebooted 3, thus putting more pressure on Nolan to finish the "trilogy" right. And frankly, I think that Iron Man will probably win in the dvd war, because it's something that works better with Blu Ray, and because it's the kind of film you can watch any time, while you have to sit through a lot of boring scenes in TDK to get to the good stuff.
Posted by D.Z. at August 17, 2008 10:22 PM
comment #23
plastiqueelephant says ...
um, is everyone sure he's not totally kidding around here? the fuck dc thing, i mean surely it's such a ridiculous thing to say ala tropic thunder and perhaps he's laughing his guts out that people are getting in such a lather over it.
Posted by plastiqueelephant at August 17, 2008 10:41 PM
comment #24
scooterzz says ...
no one should ever take anything thia guy says in print interviews seriously....he's always 'on' (and i've spoken with him when he was sober and when he was ripped to the tits) and it seldom translates properly to print....
Posted by scooterzz at August 17, 2008 11:40 PM
comment #25
iamwhoiam says ...
Pretty clear that he was joking, he said it during TT junket to a whole bunch of journalists who were laughing their ass off. and as someone above me mentioned, Downy's interviews should be seen, not read. It almost never translates to print the way he meant it.
Having said that TDK is tiresome at times. It's not that difficult to understand, it's just exhausting.
Posted by iamwhoiam at August 17, 2008 11:56 PM
comment #26
C-PhreekII says ...
Piss on the hand that isn't feeding you. So brave, so "rebel."
Posted by C-PhreekII at August 18, 2008 1:20 AM
comment #27
transmogrifier says ...
I love the panty twisting that goes on with messageboarders when a celebrity dares have an opinion on anything, even though those same messageboarders most probably spent their night in a right lather about nuclear fridges or an unexpected cut-to-black at the end of a long-running series. To an audience of around 10.
Posted by transmogrifier at August 18, 2008 1:35 AM
comment #28
theultimatebiu says ...
TAKE THAT DC COMICS!! YOU ARE SOOOO BURNED!!!
(sorry, trying to talk like the young'uns)
Posted by theultimatebiu at August 18, 2008 2:53 AM
comment #29
actionman says ...
The Dark Knight is a masterpiece. Iron Man was a fun little action flick. Big differences between the two.
I am sort of surprised by these comments by RDJ; he's not an idiot by any means -- how could he not understand TDK and the points it was making?
Everyone I have seen it with certainly did. Makes no sense to me.
Posted by actionman at August 18, 2008 5:53 AM
comment #30
Zimmergirl says ...
Scooterz is the only one with a clue. Of course he was kidding. Iron Man was the number one movie of the summer until TDK came along.
Posted by Zimmergirl at August 18, 2008 6:42 AM
comment #31
Ogami Itto says ...
He's so right. Why can't Batman do the batusi and fight the Clock King:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_King
Posted by Ogami Itto at August 18, 2008 6:48 AM
comment #32
cjKennedy says ...
It's funny how defensive people are over TDK. It's not a movie that needs your help. Its reputation is secure.
Posted by cjKennedy at August 18, 2008 8:03 AM
comment #33
MickTravis says ...
Anybody who has a handle on "The Prestige" should have no trouble with "The Dark Knight." So clearly he's joshing.
Posted by MickTravis at August 18, 2008 8:20 AM
comment #34
johnc says ...
Major props to Downey. And insidah, I am so with you.
Posted by johnc at August 18, 2008 8:20 AM
comment #35
nemo says ...
I was a DC man up to the age of 11 or 12, when I switched my loyalties to Marvel.
All comic books are for kids, but DC was for really young kids, at least back in the 60s. Before those silly "graphic novels" came along and took Batman, who was a total square, and tried to make him "edgy". They only ended up making him murky.
Posted by nemo at August 18, 2008 9:27 AM
comment #36
Joshua Mooney says ...
Downey, Jr: "'I'll burn that bridge when I come to it' is my favourite phrase I've ever coined."
Fuck you, buddy. It was James Tate.
Next thing you know, he'll be claiming to have invented the Terrible Towel.
Posted by Joshua Mooney at August 18, 2008 9:54 AM
comment #37
T. S. Idiot says ...
Junior probably doesn't remember seeing MEMENTO.
Posted by T. S. Idiot at August 18, 2008 10:35 AM
comment #38
nemo says ...
I always pictured Downey's life back in his druggie days as being just like Memento, punctuated by an occasional interlude like Elliott Gould's sojourn in the LA County Jail in The Long Goodbye.
Posted by nemo at August 18, 2008 10:54 AM
comment #39
Yves says ...
The only way Nolan could do it right and end the trilogy with a bang is by setting the story 30 years in the future and making the Dark Knight Returns. Heath made Dark Knight the #2 movie of all time, not the story, and not the overlong running time.
Posted by Yves at August 18, 2008 11:16 AM
comment #40
Mr. Buckles says ...
The Dark Knight is like Michael Mann's Heat - a screenplay that has about 4 storylines that tend to bloat the proceedings but at the same time are also easily forgivable.
The difference is that The Dark Knight tries to be about something deeper in terms of social context and issues it raises (extraordinary rendition, vigilantism, symbols and signifiers) many of which are set-up without a lot of depth or depend on late act reversals.
Personally, I much prefer this to 90 minutes of breezy action. That said, 2.5 hours is too much.
Posted by Mr. Buckles at August 18, 2008 12:22 PM
comment #41
Supernetuser says ...
All the drugs Robert Downey Jr did in his druggie days have probably affected his chances of understanding the Dark Knight in some ways.
Posted by Supernetuser at August 18, 2008 12:37 PM
comment #42
Richard_Stone says ...
I've been wondering if the editing of TDK hadn't been expressly designed to encourage multiple viewings by holding back on some exposition or plot explanations.
For example, most of Batman / Bruce Wayne's detecting is thrown in two lines of dialogue right after a cut and you have to be quick to get it all on first viewing. Wayne says to Alfred: "cross-reference the cops list with the hospital admission list" and then leaves on a motorcycle. Or the scene where he finds the cops in an apartment before the mayor's funeral, or the one with the guys named Harvey and Dent. These scenes are not exactly complicated, but the way they're edited doesn't really help a fast understanding from the audience. Perhaps this lead to some repeat business.
Posted by Richard_Stone at August 18, 2008 1:06 PM
comment #43
CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...
Boo-hoo, Batman so hard to understand, it's so long, it make my head hurt!! And it doesn't make me giggle like when Jack Black farts onscreen, either...hahaha, now THAT'S funny!
Jesus Christ, there's really no winning with you people. First of all, you bitch about movies like Clone Wars (incidentally, it seems like I'm the only one that actually kinda enjoyed it for the Saturday matinee nostalgia entertainment it is, 100 times better than Indy...) being too childish, and now you rip a movie called THE DARK KNIGHT being too serious? Really?!?! Btw, I actually find the film (esp. Heath Ledger's performance) to have an abundance of dark humor.
There's no denying RDJ is a great actor, but there's also no denying he is also totally schizo off-his-rocker, and anything he says has to be taken with a pillar of salt, if not the entire sodium manufacturing plant.
Plus, it's the ol' DC vs. Marvel rivarly.
Plus, he's probably jealous TDK stole IM's box office thunder.
Plus, a studio head probably told him to diss Batman for some free coke.
Or perhaps none of these. In which case, RDJ's taste in film is questionable (which I would find surprising), or has problems sitting still and focusing for 3 hours (which I wouldn't) .
Posted by CitizenKanedforChewingGum at August 18, 2008 1:14 PM
comment #44
CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...
I read that same interview, redmond, and came to pretty much the same conclusion. Read it on the edge of my seat, threw it down, realized I didn't really believe the sincerity of a single word of what he said. Probably why all great actors are pretty horrible interviews; there's just never a sense of an actual coherent human personality in there. Actually kind of pissed me off. Waste of my time.
Posted by CitizenKanedforChewingGum at August 18, 2008 1:21 PM
comment #45
Joshua Mooney says ...
Buckles, while I agree that "Dark Knight" aimed for deepness and touched on all those issues you mentioned (and I didn't mind the length), I disagree that "Heat" didn't attempt same. In fact I thought "Heat" succeeded in terms of "social context and issues" in ways "Dark Knight" could not. "Heat" showed the cops and crooks as middle-class workaday men in a thoroughly authentic world (L.A. in the '90s), with lives, fucked-up relationships, families, family drama, etc. It humanized them in realistic, recognizable terms, which is why the fates of these guys meant so much to me. I doubt not that the Nolan brothers have equally serios stuff on their minds, but my reponse to "Heat" was ultimately on a personal level, which "Dark Knight," with all its signs and signifiers, simply could not reach. I don't see how the two films can be compared at all, is I guess what I'm saying.
Posted by Joshua Mooney at August 18, 2008 1:25 PM
comment #46
CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...
That was pretty funny, T.S/Nemo. And I totally, totally agree, Yves.
Posted by CitizenKanedforChewingGum at August 18, 2008 1:26 PM
comment #47
CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...
Josh - I do kind of wonder how many times "Heat" would be brought up in these reviews for TDK if it were not for that opening bank heist scene/William Fichtner cameo. I'm betting a helluva lot less, at the very least...
Posted by CitizenKanedforChewingGum at August 18, 2008 1:30 PM
comment #48
Joshua Mooney says ...
Right, Citizen Wrigley: Mann set the standard, and certainly Nolan saw it. He was in some small way influenced, maybe, and that's it! Two VERY different movies. But Jeff was one of the first who referenced "Heat" in terms of "TDK." But not the last, alas.
Posted by Joshua Mooney at August 18, 2008 2:15 PM
comment #49
sardine says ...
The DARK KNIGHT: such a BAD MOVIE!!!!
Posted by sardine at August 18, 2008 2:16 PM
comment #50
ZayTonday says ...
Holy crap, TDK is too high brow? I could name off 50 movies way more "high brow" than TDM that RDJ probably would call his favorite of all time.
He just didn't like the moral ambiguity. TDK was an amazing film which aimed to make the "comic book movie" genre a little more grown up. This doesn't mean Iron Man was inferior by any means, just that they're different movies, and I'm thinking that RDJ feels that comic book source material shouldn't be treated with that same reverence that regular books get.
Also, it's pretty hilarious that one of the stars of Tropic Thunder is calling out another movie for being too high brow for its own good.
Posted by ZayTonday at August 18, 2008 2:32 PM
comment #51
Jake says ...
Damn, when did Iron Man become cooler than Batman?
I'm not sure if that's possible, but Downey has always been a lot cooler than Bale.
Posted by Jake at August 18, 2008 4:01 PM
comment #52
Jake says ...
And btw...
Oh wow...are people really taking this comment at face value? Don't you think that maybe, just maybe...Downey was- gasp!- joking around?
He's been doing tons of press all summer, and I've yet to see a single interview where he isn't cracking jokes or being sarcastic.
Posted by Jake at August 18, 2008 4:21 PM
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