comment #1

The Winchester says ...

No worries, Wells. It's when you don't wanna hear the RZA and the GZA, THAT is when you sound like a putz.

comment #2

George Prager says ...

I can't wait for the day when white people stop pretending to like rap music or hip-hop or whatever the fuck it is called. There is hope, though. This form of commerce seems to be most popular with upper middle-class thirtysomethings who went to college in the 90s and babyboomers with teenagers who think they're being hip by blasting Eminem in their SUVs (think Meredith Viera). Black people can take it or leave it.

comment #3

Carl LaFong says ...

Doesn't really add a whole lot to the flick, does it? Interesting curio but a great example of why deleted scenes are left deleted. I imagine the party scene would have been underscored with a bass-heavy cranium-thumping pop song and that the biggest loser in this cut is the soundtrack distributor. Ugh.

Also, it begs to ask, how did Tony Stark haul the Iron Man Suit all the way to Dubai undetected? Does it miraculously fit in his suitcase? Seems to me he had a whole underground lab required to suit up. I'm just askin'...

comment #4

JeffGP says ...

Ghostface is one of the best rappers and lyricists of the past 15 years or so. Fishscale, The Pretty Toney Album and Supreme Clientele are three of the best albums of the decade. He was my only frame of reference for what IRON MAN was prior to the movie, and I was very pleased to see even a televised cameo (there is one in the movie when Tony's in his jet, clearly to replace this obviously poor scene).

As this is a movie site, here's a nice little Ghost song about a screenplay and Hollywood.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQMwPd7H3-g

comment #5

dp4m says ...

George -- I'm a white guy and I like rap, but when I say "rap" I mean things like Run DMC, DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince (remember him?) and the Beastie Boys up through the period right at the start of the NWA days. That's really about it for me; I never got into the whole rest of it later on though I acknowledge that Eminem has an incredible amount of talent.

Of course, the greatest rap group of all time -- N.W.H. -- goes without saying. Damn skippy!

comment #6

mtgilchrist says ...

I agree with Carl above - Ghostface is an amazing rapper and has created some of the best hip-hop records in the past decade. (Not to mention he got out in front of the whole Amy Winehouse fanaticism months before Back To Black was released stateside, which is a considerable amount of prescience if that kind of thing counts for something among folks who don't know about him.) That said, I don't expect you to be in to hip-hop, Jeff, so I doubt it's a great loss to you or Ghostface that you guys never come together artistically.

Incidentally, anyone who thinks that white people shouldn't listen to hip-hop needs to do his or her history, because that's only the latest incarnation of whites embracing black culture. By that token, I guess my parents (much less I myself) shouldn't listen to Otis Redding or Stevie Wonder or Chuck Berry. While I agree that people (of any race) who immerse themselves in movies, musicians or full cultures as a barometer of hipness is douchey at best, there are plenty of people (including yours truly) who love and appreciate the music without trying to advertise how cool they think they are.

comment #7

Ryansi51 says ...

Good rap has gone the way of the Dodo, but those of us in the LA area do get to see GZA performing his best album (and top 5 rap albums ever) Liquid Swords 8/21 at the El Rey.

40's and blunts @ LACMA beforehand optional.

comment #8

JeffGP says ...

I think what dp4m is pointing out is that he likes music from 20 years ago (which is fine). George, rap music has been mainstream for 30 years. You sound like an old man shaking his cane from his porch with a quaking voice going "damn kids!!" Like someone in 1990 dissing the Rolling Stones or The Beatles for being "hippies."

I look forward to a time where a presidential candidate isn't forced to explain how he can like "rap music" to the mainstream media while nobody bats an eyelash at the idea of someone liking The Rolling Stones ("Black girls just want to get fucked all night/I just don't have that much jam") or movies with violence and drugs and sex, like... THE GODFATHER. What is it about rap music that makes people think there's some sort of level of endorsement of the ideas presented lyrically, no matter the context?

Also, as George pointed out, there are even those who will completely dismiss a genre and ignore even the "wholesome" or "positive" forces at work within said genre.

To be clear, there is nothing wrong with loving The Rolling Stones and The Godfather. They're the best.

comment #9

D.Z. says ...

Winchester: Anyone from Wutang's overrated. They're good at looping, awful at lyrics and beats. But then I'm probably biased to the West Coast hip hop scene, since the East Coast killed the genre when Sean Combs was legitimized as an "artist". It hasn't been the same since then. In fact, it's no coincidence that one-hit wonders like Fred Durst and Kid Rock jumped on that "Anyone can do rap" bandwagon around the same time.

George: I can't wait for the day when pretentious hacks like Oasis and Radiohead go out of business, because they killed mainstream music. Oh, yeah, and the Foo Fighters, too. Man was rock awful after Kurt and Bradley bought it.

comment #10

bluefugue says ...

>I can't wait for the day when white people stop pretending to like rap music or hip-hop or whatever the fuck it is called.

I can't wait for the day when one's musical tastes can be separated from the color of one's skin.

I don't listen to much rap, but I know too much about music not to appreciate the quality of some work in that genre.

comment #11

bluefugue says ...

>I can't wait for the day when pretentious hacks like Oasis and Radiohead go out of business,

Radiohead may be pretentious, but anyone who can write a pop melody like "Fake Plastic Trees" or "High And Dry" has my vote.

comment #12

George Prager says ...

"George: I can't wait for the day when pretentious hacks like Oasis and Radiohead go out of business, because they killed mainstream music. Oh, yeah, and the Foo Fighters, too. Man was rock awful after Kurt and Bradley bought it."

How does my not liking rap-hop translate into my liking Radioasisfoo Fighters? Oh, right, I forgot, D.Z. is 12 years old.

What is playing on my I-Pod? My I-Pod was beginning to dpress me, so I broke out the discman a month ago (actually a never-used-with-batteries-included BOSE portable disc player that someone in my building threw out). Lately I've been listening to Judee Sill, Deep Purple, Free, Andrew Hill, Neko Case, Meg Baird, Neil Young, Charles Lloyd, the MORVERN CALLER soundtrack...

comment #13

D.Z. says ...

George: Sorry. I've noticed most people who hate hip hop like bad alt rock.

comment #14

Walter Sobchak says ...

Wells.... you realize that if John McCain had said what you said about Ghostface Killa the Left (and probably you) would be peeing its panties over what an unforgivably racist statement that was...

Also.... rap sucks, (for the most part).... Thirty years from now a lot of people will be listening to Radiohead.... Nobody will be listening to Ghostface Killa....

Finally.... I love when the race card is tossed.... I especially love when a black friend / co-worker calls me a cracker for expressing my dislike for rap/hip-hop.... I really really love the blank looks on their faces when I ask them how many Curtis Mayfield, Isaac Hayes or Otis Redding CDs they have.... ("who?")

comment #15

Studly Semite says ...

not really into Wu-Tang and for me the best of the rap era ended in '94 but seriously, you guys are showing you are all old fogies when it comes to music. This is a movie blog...

comment #16

frankbooth says ...

Trends in hip-hop change quickly, and I really don't keep up. But from what I've heard, the currently popular style is mechanical-sounding vocals over a grinding, martial beat. Kind of a drag. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

JeffGP -- ugly buildings, whores and transgressive music all become respectable with age.

comment #17

Mgmax says ...

The funny thing is, you know what Robert Taylor's real name was? Ghostface Killah. Back then you HAD To change a name like that.

comment #18

D.Z. says ...

Walter: I doubt you were playing the race card, but that jerk from Oasis is a different story.

comment #19

EOTW says ...

Paul's Boutique. The greatest rap album ever. Still. Deal, y'all!

comment #20

VictorLazlo says ...

WALTER SOBCHAK:"Also.... rap sucks, (for the most part).... Thirty years from now a lot of people will be listening to Radiohead.... Nobody will be listening to Ghostface Killa...."

I bet they said the same thing about GrandMaster Flash and the Furious Five, and Elvis.

Music sucks (for the most part). Movies suck (for the most part). The 98% crap rule applies to all artforms.

And I'm speaking as someone who has Ghostface Killah and Radiohead in heavy rotation on my Ipod.

It's also ironic that a movie blog has so much disdain for Wu-Tang. When they were in their prime (93 - 97) they're martial arts meets gangster movie meets comic books meets old school hip hop style of music was (is) sublime and connected with dudes from the hood and nerds (of all races) in the suburbs.

It was like they were plugged into the brains of every kid in the US, white and black, born between 1970 - 1980 and they're music was the unholy child of pop culture during that period.

And I haven't even mentioned The RZA's brilliant score for Ghost Dog. Jim Jarmusch definitely understood why the Wu Tang was so revered.

I bombs atomically,

Socrates philosophies and high profecies

can't define how I be droppin these

mockeries

Lyrically perform armed robbery

Flee with the lottery,

possibly they spotted me,

Battle-scarred shogun,

explosion when my pen hits

tremendous,

ultra-violet shine blind forensics

I inspect you, through the future see millenium

Killa B's sold fifty gold sixty platinum

Shacklin the masses with drastic rap tactics

Graphic displays melt the steel like blacksmiths

Black Wu jackets queen B's ease the guns in

Rumble with patrolmen, tear gas laced the function

Heads by the score take flight incite a war

Chicks hit the floor, diehard fans demand more

Behold the bold soldier,

control the globe slowly

Proceeds to blow swingin swords like Shinobi

Stomp grounds and pound footprints in solid rock

Wu got it locked, performin live on your hottest block

As the world turns, I spread like germs

Bless the globe with the pestilence, the hard-headed never learn

It's my testament to those burned

Play my position in the game of life, standin firm

on foreign land,

jump the gun out the fryin pan,

into the fire

Transform into the Ghostrider,

a six-pack and A Streetcar Named Desire
who got my back?

In the line of fire holdin back, what?

My peoples if you with me where the fuck you at?

Niggaz is strapped, and they tryin to twist my beer cap

It's court adjourned, for the bad seed from bad sperm

Herb got my wig fried like a bad perm,

what the blood

clot,
we smoke pot, and blow spots

You wanna think twice, I think not

The Iron Lung ain't got ta tell you where it's coming from

Guns of Navarone, tearing up your battle zone
Rip through your slums

Um, sorry, I just geeked out a little there.

And then

comment #21

janee says ...

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