comment #1

Arran says ...

I would say those percentages are largely meaningless, because how long has it been since getting married and having kids were considered among THE things to aspire to?

I personally would fall outside that 31 per cent, because I haven't had kids (don't want them) and aren't married (don't especially believe in it). That doesn't automatically mean I'm an eternal adolescent or think about any of that shit in the last par.

Oh noes! "Formerly deferential minorities are demanding respect"! It's not like I grew up in the '50s and have seen shit change around me. The concept of "deferential minorities" is and has always been completely alien to me.

comment #2

fattyhadaparty says ...

"Wesley Yang summarizes the hows, whys and wherefores of the perpetually adolescent, emotionally walled off, under-educated, doughy-bodied, vaguely slobbish Seth Rogen-Judd Apatow male of 2008."

Would this refer to the Seth Rogan male who is one of the hottest actor/writers in the business, and whose last three films have all grossed over $100 million domestically? Or would this refer to the Judd Apatow male who is married with kids and is one of the hottest writer/producer/directors in the business?

"'The passage between adolescence and adulthood,' Kimmel concludes, 'has ­morphed from a transitional moment to a separate life stage.' "

Of course, one could argue that this consistent with the overall trend of longer average lifespans.

"The response of these young white guys to such confusing conditions, Kimmel asserts, is to withdraw into a place he calls 'Guyland.' "

Where they presumbably start entertainment blogsites.

"How long has it been since getting married and having kids were considered among THE things to aspire to?"

Exactly. Considering how almost all of the world's problems can be traced back to overpopulation, I would say that not having kids is something to aspire to. Fuckin' breeders! Ruining the fuckin' planet!!

comment #3

Luke Y. Thompson says ...

I'd totally be married by now, except for not having found anyone willing to join me.

comment #4

KevinTC says ...

Seth and Judd don't apply - two of the hardest working people in entertainment are HARDLY candidates for 'guyland' residency. The stuff they churn out strikes a chord with the 'guyland' constituency, to be sure, but they don't fit the mold - at all - so let's lay off.

On the other hand, fattyhadaparty and Arran: why so dismissive? I'm in my mid 20s and can vouch for the fact that guyland is a very real and very sad fucking place. Great review from Yang. If I didn't fear it might inspire me to organize interventions for some friends, I might pick up the book.

comment #5

D.Z. says ...

I think it's more complicated than that, since adult-children comprise all demos nowadays, not just white males. Less long-term job opportunities coupled with high costs of living make marriage and economic stability a fantasy in today's world.

Anyway, justice is served.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/film/news/e3i1af1ebdbd6481f8a155276ff03cf9070

comment #6

Arran says ...

Kevin - I'm not dismissive of the entire concept, because I know "Guyland" exists. I'm mainly objecting to marriage and having children STILL being considered milestones signifying the transition to adulthood. Seems pretty outmoded. The stats from the 1960 and 2000 are compared as if absolutely nothing has changed in society since then.

comment #7

Gordie Lachance says ...

Right, because boys and girls had babies in 1960 because they were "mature", not because abortion was illegal.

My parents got hitched in 1966 and then had me to keep my dad out of the Nam (again, so mature).

That authors stats are right, but his reasons are all wrong.

comment #8

DarkHorizons says ...

Things don't fit into categories this easily unfortunately, I know plenty of people who meet these five milestones who are in no way anywhere near as mature, wise or 'adult' as others I know who only fit two or three.

With divorce rates so high and a more open attitude about lifestyles, the marriage and kid milestones certainly seem the most anachronistic. With the cost of living and the way people change jobs, the moving out and work options also seem grossly simplistic.

I'm a guy who has run my own business which I love doing for 12 years and rarely have time on the weekend because I work. Yet according to this study that's considered equally mature to a friend of mine who only works to get money for clubbing and drugs on the weekend and has changed jobs ten times in the past six years with little to no direction in life.

Lets face it, the world has changed and so have the markers of adulthood. A person's intelligence, ambition, lifestyle and personality are far more accurate signs of someone's maturity than external factors like their dress, address, waistline and salary. These are things that can't be ticked off on some check list, they can only be judged in person.

comment #9

hcat says ...

"A person's intelligence, ambition, lifestyle and personality are far more accurate signs of someone's maturity than external factors like their dress, address, waistline and salary"

But these are far less measurable. Yes these five critera are not the end all be all and certainly leave out a lot of information (does it count those married at 22 divorced at 27 demographics as single or having been married? what counts as a finished education?). But I think it has the arguement backwards. Men dont retreat to Guyville because they haven't acheived these milestones, they haven't acheived these milestones because they don't want to leave Guyville.

The reason so many of these comedies are being made is the target audience still has the disposable income of a teenager, without the burdens of groceries, rent, utilities, etc...

comment #10

btwnproductions says ...

I married at 40. My wife and I just had our first child at age 43 (we lucked out, but most of our friends didn't start having kids till their mid- to late-30s). I recommend marriage and children, but in due time. (I supported myself, so I was more in Singleville than Guyland.)