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If you're looking for definitive proof of how our culture (and particularly our film culture) is steadily devolving and dumbing itself down, check out the new Ben Lyons-Ben Mankiewicz version of "At The Movies", which premiered a few days ago. This is not a TV show about how good or bad the latest movies are. It's a show about the End of Civilization as some of us have known it. If the Eloi of George Pal's The Time Machine were to produce their own movie-review show, this is how it would play.
The Two Bens' views on Burn After Reading pretty much say it all.
The whole show feels way too rushed -- the producers apparently said to everyone involved, "Just keep it simple and keep your foot on the accelerator and take no detours." The show is obviously aimed at under-35 morons who just want to see a few clips and maybe absorb a couple of fast cracks before they channel-surf onto the next distraction.
Lyons is the glib lightweight -- one of those empty but sociable motor-mouths for whom the expression "if I ever have an original thought it would die of loneliness" was originally coined. Mankiewicz is clearly the more thoughtful and reflective of the two, but he's been told by the producers to repress his natural instincts and to keep things fast and shallow.
Don't even think of comparing this to the original Roger Ebert-Gene Siskel show of the '70s, which was primarily aimed at people who (a) read movie reviews on occasion, (b) had at least a couple of years of college under their belt, and (c) actually liked movies as experiences with all kinds of layers and echos and reflections contained within. The Two Bens show is aimed at the apes.
Yvete Mimieux as "Weenah," the prettiest and most obviously sexual "Eloi" in George Pal's The Time Machine.
Ask yourself this -- if and when a subsequent "At The Movies" show is produced for the 2025 generation (i.e., 17 years hence), how can it be more dumbed-down than the current one? I'm going on the assumption that each generation henceforth is going to be less educated, less literate, less worldly, more ADD, more into video games, less cultured, less travelled, etc.
Variety's Anne Thompson hates the show also.
Posted by Jeffrey Wells on September 16, 2008 at 11:39 AM
comment #1
The InSneider
says ...
But c'mon, did you watch Lyons' pan of Surfer, Dude. Worth the price of admission, I have to admit.
Posted by The InSneider
at September 16, 2008 12:47 PM
comment #2
Roman
says ...
What the FUCK are you talking about. Chase was great and he is 100% right on Palin.
Posted by Roman
at September 16, 2008 12:52 PM
comment #3
Roman
says ...
My huge apologies. This was supposed to be posted on the Chevy Chase talkback. I'm very sorry for posting it here and if I could delete it I would.
In any case, I was really really disappointed about what Mankiewicz said about Crash (which I think is a great movie). This will almost ruin AMC for me, which is a shame, since it's the best channel on the Television.
Posted by Roman
at September 16, 2008 12:55 PM
comment #4
Pertwillaby
says ...
Ouch! I haven't seen it but it sounds terrible. I just saw a clip with them on youtube, they are not even charismatic!
Posted by Pertwillaby
at September 16, 2008 12:56 PM
comment #5
Richardson
says ...
I'm sure that film critics speaking out against this show is purely based on how terrible it is and has nothing to do with the general overall marginalization of film critics that has been happening in our culture for some time, and which the Internet has thankfully aided greatly.
Nah, nothing like that...
Posted by Richardson
at September 16, 2008 12:58 PM
comment #6
Roman
says ...
Also, I know everyone will hate me for saying this but I miss Richard Roeper. I don't care what you say about the guy - more often than not, his opinion on the movie was correct.
Posted by Roman
at September 16, 2008 1:00 PM
comment #7
actionman
says ...
Roeper is a doofus who occassionally got things right.
I lasted exactly two mins with this new show. Awful. Howlingly awful.
Posted by actionman
at September 16, 2008 1:04 PM
comment #8
BurmaShave
says ...
Lyons is obviously a total twat but it makes me sad because from his daytime hosting of TCM I've always thought Manciewicz had promise. It's been downhill for him since he got wrapped up in TMZ.
Posted by BurmaShave
at September 16, 2008 1:15 PM
comment #9
markj
says ...
"Siskel & Ebert really paved the way for us" - If Siske & Ebert had realised what they were paving the way for they would have quit.
Posted by markj
at September 16, 2008 1:20 PM
comment #10
Bart Smith
says ...
No props for your old MoviePoopShoot compatriot Matt Singer?
So far, he's the only watchable part of the show.
Posted by Bart Smith
at September 16, 2008 1:22 PM
comment #11
BurmaShave
says ...
Two other thoughts: dreadful new theme song, and I understand time constraints but that's some of the most awkward editing I've ever seen, especially in the critic's panel.
Posted by BurmaShave
at September 16, 2008 1:23 PM
comment #12
TheJERMSguy
says ...
I watched the whole episode. It's bad. Did Ben Lyons get the job because Brian Dunkleman turned them down? They don't remotely represent critics. They're hosts. This could be At the Movies, or Pimp My Ride, or Trading Spaces, or America's Next Juggler. Anyone who knows anything about movies can skip this. This is for people whose opinion on all movies boils down to "Liked it" or "Sucked!"
Posted by TheJERMSguy
at September 16, 2008 1:29 PM
comment #13
actionman
says ...
Dunkleman! He was a client of ours a few years ago. What an f'ing stooge!!
Posted by actionman
at September 16, 2008 1:35 PM
comment #14
Deathtongue_Groupie
says ...
The next good review show will happen in new media. That Siskel & Ebert were able to make a go of it away from their PBS roots lies entirely with the fact that they built their name recognition to the point that it would work.
If you want a baseball metaphor, they started out as college standouts (at WTTW, when it was Opening Soon at a Theater Near You). Then a talent scout (PBS), took them to a big league farm team (Sneak Previews). Seasoned, they got invited (by Tribune) to the "big show" (At the Movies with S & E). Major league stars, they then went switched teams one last time to be treated as such (Siskel & Ebert & the Movies, until reverting back).
And that's the problem here. Reviewers aren't interchangeable. Film is a very personal, subjective art form. You need a guide that shares many of your sensibilities. Nobody knows who the fuck any of these people are. It took 7 years for Siskel & Ebert to get that first toehold at PBS.
Somewhere out there is probably a YouTube version of what will become a legitimate new generations. It will take a little while longer for it to season and work it's way up the media ladder. DVDs have only increased the appreciation of good cinema, as places that have no college or art house screens no longer hinder people from seeing buzzed about films like Tell No One or The Visitor.
Posted by Deathtongue_Groupie
at September 16, 2008 1:43 PM
comment #15
Chapman Carruthers
says ...
>>>In any case, I was really really disappointed about what Mankiewicz said about Crash (which I think is a great movie).
Clarificaiton needed. Are you talking about the Cronenberg film? Man, I couldn't agree more. A film that deserves significantly more praise than it's received over the years, and I'm not saying that simply because of the beautifully filmed Holly Hunter ass shot, which propelled me into puberty.
If you're talking about the other one, you know, the one with the rap gup unloading a truck full of Chinese immigrants at the end, well then, I may have to reconsider Mankie's merits as a film reviewer.
Posted by Chapman Carruthers
at September 16, 2008 1:44 PM
comment #16
Mark
says ...
To be fair, their second show went a little smoother, and showed that they were actually trying to listen to the other. Lyons still proved to be a complete non-entity with his complete dismissal of Towelhead. "Sexual abuse? Gross; do we really need that topic broached?" Well, 1 in 3 girls have a similar experience to Jasira, Ben, so maybe allow yourself to be confronted by the subject.
Posted by Mark
at September 16, 2008 1:46 PM
comment #17
Roman
says ...
"If you're talking about the other one, you know, the one with the rap gup unloading a truck full of Chinese immigrants at the end, well then, I may have to reconsider Mankie's merits as a film reviewer."
Your attempts at sarcasm fail pathetically. It's a trainwreck. Go ahead and have an erection.
Posted by Roman
at September 16, 2008 1:49 PM
comment #18
arturobandini2
says ...
You should see the two Bens' audition reel. Reviewing IN DIANA JONES, Lyons actually stated that movie audiences are more sophisticated today than when the original RAIDERS came out. He wasn't even alive then!
I second the praise for Cronenberg's CRASH. That's a movie that just gets better and better. I'd love it if someone would release another movie called CRASH in a year or two. See how Haggis likes it when another filmmaker steals his movie title.
Posted by arturobandini2
at September 16, 2008 2:10 PM
comment #19
Richardson
says ...
Deathtongue - I have a bad feeling that Rotten Tomatoes is the new media equivalent of Siskel and Ebert and that, as far as Internet is concerned, critical mass (ho ho) cries louder than individual critics with good taste. It seems like, as a corollary, critics are less and less likely to go against the grain on a movie. The only time people care what *one* critic has to say is when (s)he's the first critic reviewing whatever.
Posted by Richardson
at September 16, 2008 2:12 PM
comment #20
Richardson
says ...
"Reviewing IN DIANA JONES, Lyons actually stated that movie audiences are more sophisticated today than when the original RAIDERS came out"
Highest grossing movie, 1981: "On Golden Pond".
[according to the IMDb, http://www.imdb.com/Sections/Years/1981/top-grossing ]
Highest grossing movie, 2007: "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix"
Yeah, people are way more sophisticated.
Posted by Richardson
at September 16, 2008 2:16 PM
comment #21
corey3rd
says ...
what the hell happened to the fake screening room set? Now it's "In My Dad's Living Room."
Posted by corey3rd
at September 16, 2008 2:21 PM
comment #22
BurmaShave
says ...
Even as someone who likes it, I cannot dispute Ben M's claim that CRASH is one of the most overrated movies of recent years.
Posted by BurmaShave
at September 16, 2008 2:22 PM
comment #23
Mark
says ...
Please. People are way more sophisticated now. All people had to do 27 years ago was watch the movie. Today's average audience member must know how to preorder tickets, text message during pivotal scenes, hide illegal video camera, update crappy blog, etc.
Posted by Mark
at September 16, 2008 2:23 PM
comment #24
Richardson
says ...
Burma - it's hard to give him any credit for the opinion, though, because it's a safe pick; it is generally accepted as the most overrated movie of recent years. If he went out on a limb and said, "Dark Knight is the most overrated movie of recent years," that might be interesting.
Posted by Richardson
at September 16, 2008 2:35 PM
comment #25
Deathtongue_Groupie
says ...
Now THIS is a future reviewer with some conjones:
http://www.divshare.com/download/5383441-3e9
Posted by Deathtongue_Groupie
at September 16, 2008 2:35 PM
comment #26
alynch
says ...
Everytime over the last month that Wells has posted a video before the jump, all items below it suddenly disappear. Is this happening to anybody else?
Posted by alynch
at September 16, 2008 2:58 PM
comment #27
Yuval
says ...
It's also happening to me. I can't see any posts before this one, even if I go to the September Archives.
Posted by Yuval
at September 16, 2008 3:10 PM
comment #28
DarthCorleone
says ...
alynch>> I didn't think it was video that was causing it, as he posts quite a bit of video material, but, yeah, I've been having lots of problems with the Hollywood Elsewhere page lately as you describe. And, yes, at the moment I can't read anything below this post.
Posted by DarthCorleone
at September 16, 2008 3:21 PM
comment #29
The InSneider
says ...
This is my obligatory CRASH RULES post. You're all haters. Cronenberg's Crash sucks.
Posted by The InSneider
at September 16, 2008 3:57 PM
comment #30
Rev. Slappy
says ...
Can we get a moratorium on the word "amazing"? Most overused word in the English language. A 5 second excursion to my laptop's thesaurus found 22 other words that mean the same thing.
Posted by Rev. Slappy
at September 16, 2008 4:58 PM
comment #31
Chapman Carruthers
says ...
22 other words! My, that's... mind-boggling and astounding!
Posted by Chapman Carruthers
at September 16, 2008 5:46 PM
comment #32
BurmaShave
says ...
Slappy every since it was pointed out to me in 7th grade English I have noticed and concurred that the most overused word in the language is weird, especially by young people. That's why I love coming to Grammar & Language Elsewhere!
Posted by BurmaShave
at September 16, 2008 6:30 PM
comment #33
BurmaShave
says ...
I just watched their review of THE WOMEN. Lyons said "I love women in real life but I hated THE WOMEN!" This is going to be an amazing douchefest they should try to lure Roeper back.
Posted by BurmaShave
at September 16, 2008 6:45 PM
comment #34
frankbooth
says ...
Opinions like that are the reason we all respect you so much, Mira.
Posted by frankbooth
at September 16, 2008 9:01 PM
comment #35
YRG
says ...
Absolute crap. That's why I like youtube. Rotten Tomatos, Hollywood-Elsewhere, IMDB forums, and a billion other sites take the place of watching this. I'd add Harry Knowles, but I never go to his site. Waiting for you to get proficient in Final Cut Express and hosting videos on this site.
Posted by YRG
at September 16, 2008 11:13 PM
comment #36
Richardson
says ...
That's a good point, Yves. Jeff should definitely shoot his own critic show. I need more things to laugh at right now.
Posted by Richardson
at September 17, 2008 9:17 AM
comment #37
BurmaShave
says ...
Wells & Poland would be the best option for the new show, just for the variance of opinion and the sheer hatred.
Posted by BurmaShave
at September 17, 2008 10:23 AM
comment #38
Deathtongue_Groupie
says ...
Richardson - there were hacks out there along with Siskel & Ebert (Rex Reed or Michael Medved anyone?), so Rotten Tomatoes is nothing new. Some would even say Gene Shalit belongs in that group.
Rotten is nothing more than the online extension of USA Today polls, made easier by the internet. Someone will rise above the din and once they get on everyone's radar will drive traffic to some smart site that recognizes the potential. Web ad revenue is exploding (around $25B this year estimated), so someone will realize that there's enough eyeballs out there for at least one channel/site/portal to pull them into in order to get smart, serious yet fun film reviews.
Posted by Deathtongue_Groupie
at September 17, 2008 10:25 AM
comment #39
Richardson
says ...
"Rotten is nothing more than the online extension of USA Today polls, made easier by the internet."
I don't disagree with much, if any, of what you said, however I think that you're ignoring a general effect the Internet has.
I think that a lot of people view rotten tomatoes in a similar way to wikipedia; on any given issue, any single thing it says may or may not be correct, but with that many fingers in the pot, you tend to assume that the general consensus is overall correct; and the more reviewers, the better, to get an accurate picture. I think that a lot of Internet users tend to think this way (probably because the Internet itself has made a lot of people feel like their fringe behavior is actually much more normal than it is). I'm not sure how one single critic could gain a following within the Internet culture which, to use a cliche, seems fueled by ADD.
I've tried to write comedy (or anything, really) for Internet distribution, but the problem is, you have to grab somebody within the first ten to fifteen seconds (if that) or you've lost them. I don't know how that can possibly translate to film critics.
Posted by Richardson
at September 17, 2008 11:05 AM
comment #40
YRG
says ...
The internet has made people believe that their fringe behavior is a lot more normal than it actually is. So true, Richardson, so true.
Posted by YRG
at September 17, 2008 1:22 PM
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