comment #1

JHRussell says ...

I will let CNN spin it down for me - they have it a dead heat, no bounce for Obama out of his convention:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/31/obama.mccain.poll/index.html

comment #2

buster says ...

Must have been a result of all of the fence-sitters flocking to HE to the read the critical analysis of the moose picture.

And didn't you just swear to purge all of the righties? Now you're egging them on?? You have to make up your mind. All you're going to get now are the rowdy ones who stayed behind ... kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

comment #3

broadstreetbully says ...

A poll difference of 8 percentage points would be substantial, yes, but in general, these 46 to 44, or 45 to 43, etc. polls are so meaningless.

First of all, because they're so close, but second because they don't take into account the electoral state polls in the battleground states, which is what matters.

comment #4

quintus arrius says ...

Now Jeff is talking to the pictures on the walls in the empty hall.

comment #5

calraigh says ...

Not to flog a dead horse but I have a feeling ' Babygate' ain't over yet. Not with these pics. And not with a title like '' Mommy-in-Law'' on one of them.

http://cajunboy.tumblr.com/

What in holy effing hell is going on?

comment #6

SmilingPolitely says ...

Texas to Alaska
Texas to Alaska
Texas to Alaska
Texas to Alaska
Texas to Alaska
Texas to Alaska

You're not fooling anyone, Sarah Palin! Trig isn't your kid.

The false pregnancy announced today is just a smokescreen. Get on this shit, Larry Flynt!

comment #7

calraigh says ...

Radar exclusive

http://radaronline.com/

comment #8

Chicago48 says ...

Obama supporter here, but I find the Obama-supporting media to be a little mean spirited towards Pallin. As for these polls, nobody should be watching until after the debates start.

comment #9

broadstreetbully says ...

I think calraigh and smilingpolitely are just jealous that this babydaddy is having sex and they're not. Their prurient interest in the sex life of a minor is disturbing.

comment #10

Dan Revill says ...

You know it's somewhat ironic that the media is doing Republican dirty work so well...against the Republicans. I think going after Sarah Palin herself is fair, but the family matters should be left alone...then again, the piss poor way that it is being handled by the McCain-Palin campaign isn't exactly helpful.

comment #11

calraigh says ...

I have no interest in '' the sex life of a minor ''. What you've inferred there is well, you said it, not myself.

I'm interested in why a Vice Presidential candidate seems to be actively deceiving the electorate. I'm genuinely curious. However seeing as I'm not even a U.S citizen, nobody, especially yourself, has to worry about my vote. I have an interest, a curiosity in events that shape the world I live in.Something which Palin does not and she's running for bloody office.

As for my sex life, I can assure you it's a goddamn riot round these parts.

Broadstreet, Dully.

comment #12

corey3rd says ...

Those pics of Merecedes holding the baby were "auntie poses" and not just merely, look at the new baby of my brother's girlfriend's mother.

Also what's up with the date of the family pic being altered by a year? This is smelling like a nice thick cover up. If the mom played preggo for three months, it's time for the daughter to play hide the pillow.

comment #13

Suki Jonze says ...

i think this whole sarah palin thing may not have worked out for mccain...

http://www.hollywood-newsroom.com/gossip/sarah-palin-naked/

comment #14

lazarus says ...

Is that first picture with the miniskirt real?! With the Fuck Me Pumps?

Kind of hard to deny the bimbo vibe coming from that one.

comment #15

MathewM says ...

Half of those are obviously photoshopped. It's kind of sad that an attractive woman is more manly than the majority of posters including Jeff Wells. My gosh, picking on a woman because she knows how to hunt. You guys are so fucking pathetic. I'm pretty much done here. Enjoy your circle jerks. Regardless of who I vote for in November, Hollywood Elsewhere officially sucks now.

comment #16

BNick says ...

Wow, haven't any of you people seen The Contender? Jeff and Andrew Sullivan are battling for the Gary Oldman role.

comment #17

arturobandini2 says ...

Here's a sobering what-if. Say the McPain team gets elected, SuperPOW kicks the bucket and the plucky Wasilla mayor becomes President. (Just to make it more interesting, let's pretend that McCain declared war on Iran right before he dropped.) Suddenly, the stork visits the uber-fertile Madam President once again. Obviously, given her beliefs, she'll have the baby. Regardless of anything.

I'm not trying to be sexist, but POTUS is one job where family leave of any kind should be out of the question, to my mind. (In Palin's defense, she was back on the job as Gov three days after having Trig.) What do the women here think? Could you be an effective Commander-in-Chief while carrying a child to term? I'm curious and I'm serious.

comment #18

calraigh says ...

All of those photos are fake and the whole impetus behind it is unbelievably crass. Palin's policies are despicable enough without having to resort to these tactics.

The Scum of the World: http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/article20065.ece

comment #19

Jack Price says ...

If the last three days are any indication, the next two months are going to be an endless barrage of one meaningless smokescreen after another, purposefully discouraging any meaningful political discussion.

We've already degenerated to the point where any criticism of Sarah Palin's leadership credentials is now considered just another ugly form of sexism. And yes, I realize when someone suggests she should reject the offer for VP in order to care for her five children you'll get railed with that comment. Unconsciously or not, it fits the bill. But my God, is it now considered sexist to ask what her national security credentials are or whether her experience outside of family-life makes her the best person to serve as President of the Senate?

All the out-and-out sexist things that were said in regards to Palin go hand-in-hand with the criticisms against Obama's "otherness" in detracting from the real conversation we should be having about both their past achievements/mistakes and what their proposals could mean for the world at large. And once the line's been drawn, the cries of "sexism" or "racism" completely muddle the true line of debate.

if we can't ask these questions with at least some attempt at finding an honest answer, regardless of where it fits into our own preconceived notions of what our candidates credentials are and whether this helps or hurts our "team," then fuck man, push up the elections and let's get this ugliness out of here. I'm tired of this constant lionizing/demonizing bullshit, and it only seems to hammer home that nobody's ego is strong enough to admit fault in their own party.

Jeff, if you don't want to encourage mindless, unconstructive criticism from right-leaning (loosely defined) blowhards, quit treating politics like it was some simplistic large scale OSU-Michigan rivalry. The posts are only reflecting that general tone that you've established, and whether you realize it or not this year's coverage of the elections is becoming ten times more shrill and knee-jerk reactionary from 2004's.

Seriously man, I know it's your blog and all, but at least recognize your part in this and realize you're getting exactly what you're asking for...

comment #20

Josh Massey says ...

"All of those photos are fake and the whole impetus behind it is unbelievably crass..."

Hey, they're just liberal bloggers asking questions trying to come to an honest conclusion!

comment #21

calraigh says ...

Arturo, the fact that you are ' curious and serious ' about having to ask that question is offensive in the extreme. Pregnancy isn't a disability or an illness, it's a normal human process. This may be news to you but women have been doing it for quite a long time now. So yes, Arturo, I do think a woman could be '' an effective Commander-in-Chief while carrying a child to term. ''

comment #22

Lumiere says ...

What "righties" remain? Seems to me they were all "Stalined" .... or escaped the iron fist.

comment #23

SpinDozer says ...

'Wow, haven't any of you people seen The Contender? Jeff and Andrew Sullivan are battling for the Gary Oldman role.'

I was just thinking that I hope Oliver Stone is finished with his 1st draft cos I think he can have this thing shot & in the can by inauguration day.

comment #24

corey3rd says ...

It is merely sexism to question a core belief in a person and how that belief has seemingly proven to be worthless? Palin is part of that Condoms never work crowd. And the whole "Promise Ring" BS. And she promotes herself as a Hockey Mom. And what happens - a hockey player knocks up her daughter who thought Jesus would be her condom.

comment #25

BNick says ...

USA Today/Gallup also has Obama getting a bump, while the daily tracking polls have narrowed slightly since Friday and CNN has it almost a dead heat. It's a wash. Let's wait for the state polls after the conventions are over and the debates are upon us.

In all seriousness on the Palin stuff, the reaction from the Left so far (not the Obama campaign) shows partly why she was a fairly savvy pick by McCain. He was almost baiting his worst enemies into unloading on this woman and risking a backlash, which has already occurred even though she was announced less than four days ago!

I don't think people link this crowd to Obama directly. But Obama certainly laid down with the DailyKos crowd during the primary and he's waking up today with fleas. Go to that site right now and, even with "official" corrections up from their story this morning, the commentators are still ready to believe the worst about Palin. The Left needs to focus on McCain. Obama should (and is) leading the way.

comment #26

BNick says ...

"I was just thinking that I hope Oliver Stone is finished with his 1st draft cos I think he can have this thing shot & in the can by inauguration day."

The only issue is the Contender had the parties reversed. But you could still get Oldman up there to say, "I would like to commend you for refusing to address these baseless, disgusting rumors, which are available for everyone to read at www.dailykos.com....."

comment #27

SpinDozer says ...

'The Left needs to focus on McCain. Obama should (and is) leading the way.'

Amen, but I don't think babygate (gag) is played out, won't be until medical rec's are produced or Tailgunner Joe is announced as her replacement.

comment #28

roanokemaroon says ...

The big problem is that quite a few of the comments go way past sexism and right into misogyny. Jeff, did your Stalinist purge include ugliness from both sides or just the non-Dems?

comment #29

SpinDozer says ...

'The only issue is the Contender had the parties reversed.'

I was thinking Stone's version would have a pivotal scene with a Karl Rove/Deep Throat guy obscured by cigar smoke saying:

You've got to listen to me, John. It's the only way to align the base and still get Joe on the ticket. Someone's got to fall to take down the media, and that someone is Governor Palin. Cindy knows I'm right. Doncha, Cindy?

comment #30

BNick says ...

"Amen, but I don't think babygate (gag) is played out, won't be until medical rec's are produced or Tailgunner Joe is announced as her replacement."

I think Babygate is more than played out, in the sense that we now know the truth about her daughter's pregnancy AND we know all sorts of things that were alleged by the radical left are provably untrue.

I think if Democrats want to hang onto some kind of conspiracy theory involving the circumstances of the birth of Palin's fifth child (interviewing ground crew at the airports in Texas and Alaska, cross-examining OB-GYNs in Juneau, etc.) they do so at their own peril.

comment #31

BNick says ...

"
I was thinking Stone's version would have a pivotal scene with a Karl Rove/Deep Throat guy obscured by cigar smoke saying:

You've got to listen to me, John. It's the only way to align the base and still get Joe on the ticket. Someone's got to fall to take down the media, and that someone is Governor Palin. Cindy knows I'm right. Doncha, Cindy?"

Whoa....little crazy there aren't ya? (slowly backing away).

If Karl Rove and the Republicans were as evil genuis-y a group of guys as people gave them credit for, they would have smartly planted loads of WMDs in Iraq in 2003.

comment #32

quintus arrius says ...

So liberals immediately start talking about a woman vice president's tits and whether she'll be unable to function as president one week out of every month, and that's-- an evil Republican plan to cloud your minds and keep you from examining the real issues!

I think I can think of a simpler explanation.

comment #33

arturobandini2 says ...

Calraigh, I apologize to you for the offense. I acknowledge that my question comes from a place of ignorance, having no kids of my own. But as I prefaced my naive question, I consider POTUS to be the one job in America that shouldn't have a family-leave clause.

comment #34

BNick says ...

Well said, quintus arrius.

comment #35

D.Z. says ...

arturo: Wouldn't the VP just take over for her while she was on maternity leave? But yeah, if she tends to have kids often, it might not be a good idea for her to be President or even Vice President. On the other hand, her being away would keep her from appointing more fascist judges; so I'm all for her "right to choose", if she forgets to choose people who like to take away our rights.

roanoke: I dunno. Is it really appropriate to be accusing us of misogyny when your party has a guy like O'Reilly who likes sexually harassing co-workers and a military which has some serious female soldier assault issues? [Not to mention a President who outed a female spy...]

comment #36

D.Z. says ...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/cvn_palin_troopergate

comment #37

arturobandini2 says ...

D.Z.: Wouldn't the VP just take over for her while she was on maternity leave?

Of course. Now that I think about it, the delivery period's not much longer than routine Presidential surgery. I was thinking of recovery.

Funny. I've been wanting to see a female on the ticket for ages, but I'd never once considered the scenario of a pregnant POTUS, like Frances McDormand in FARGO.

Surely Geena Davis faced this dilemma on at least one episode.

comment #38

SpinDozer says ...

"I think Babygate is more than played out..."

Really? I've already expressed my disgust with the "story". See Mercedes MySpace stuff? Think the mono explanation, um, holds water?

"Whoa....little crazy there aren't ya?"

Remember, this is how I see an Oliver Stone 1st draft...

Reminder - I have already agreed with your position on what democrats/liberals should be doing.

comment #39

calraigh says ...

Arturo- It's not me taking personal offence, it's the principle of having to ask the question in the first place. The implication is that a woman becomes seriously impaired in some way due to the process of pregnancy and that she is essentially reduced to her bodily function. It's an incredibly reductive mindset.

comment #40

quintus arrius says ...

Fortunately we know that a male vice presidential candidate would never be impaired after a pregnancy. Well, he might be a little sleepy the next morning after meeting the mom and baby in a hotel room at 2 am.

comment #41

SpinDozer says ...

'I'd never once considered the scenario of a pregnant POTUS, like Frances McDormand in FARGO.'

The constitution prohibits the under 35 crowd, which would generally exclude the procreative element (at least in this day and age).

comment #42

SmilingPolitely says ...

"Who could have predicted that they would respond to the rumors by issuing a press release about Bristol being pregnant now?

That is totally unnecessary. They could instantly kill this story by releasing Sarah Palin's own medical records. There was no need to say anything about Bristol planning to have a shotgun wedding."

Good point. It is odd, isn't it?

comment #43

calraigh says ...

He did look rather spry, didn't he?

comment #44

corey3rd says ...

How exactly was Thomas Eagleton taken behind the shed and shot?

She's deadmeat. Also McCain is kinda creepy old guy around here. "Soul Mate!" And how he met her at a conference and took her off to the side for a private talk. He wants to rock that peggy hill coif.

comment #45

D.Z. says ...

calreigh: I doubt it's sexism, or we wouldn't also be questioning McCain's age-related health issues.

comment #46

calraigh says ...

It's Calraigh and I'm sorry, could you repeat that?

comment #47

MovieBob says ...

If he's only ahead by 8 after the convention, there's no spinning that needs to be done: It's bad news. The average post-convention bump for Democrats is 16 points, which is about what Kerry got after his convention. So the unbiased headline here is: "Obama not faring as well as John Kerry thus far," and that's bad news if you're hoping for a Democrat president.

And not all but SOME of it can definately be pinned on the Palin pick. The news cycle of the weekend was supposed to be about Obama's fantastic speech, and instead it was dominated by "who the hell is Sarah Palin??" This is the game, folks.

comment #48

arturobandini2 says ...

Calraigh, just to make your low opinion of me complete, might I suggest that you oversimplified the question? Obviously a woman can be pregnant and have a full-time career, but the POTUS is supposed to be on the job 365 days a year, 24/7 (except for brush clearin' month, of course). As far as I know, astronauts are grounded from flying during their third trimester of pregnancy. Presidents need to hop on Air Force One at a moment's notice.

You may think I'm a Neanderthal, but I guarantee you that other men will be asking this same question over the next two months. Better we all have this conversation now, in a hypothetical context.

comment #49

D.Z. says ...

Bob: "If he's only ahead by 8 after the convention, there's no spinning that needs to be done: It's bad news. The average post-convention bump for Democrats is 16 points, which is about what Kerry got after his convention."

Well, if you're going by those precedents, then you could argue that Kerry's appeal was grossly overinflated, compared to Obama's appeal. I'd imagine that, at this point, voters are just giving McCain a chance to tell his side of the story before they make their final decision. Forget the debates, though, since McCain will really have to make the same big impression at the RNC that Obama did at the DNC. The debates matter, but only if McCain can generate the demand to see the candidates in a debate.

"The news cycle of the weekend was supposed to be about Obama's fantastic speech, and instead it was dominated by "who the hell is Sarah Palin??" This is the game, folks."

Johnny Boy managed to distract people with a pretty face, but he's got to be able to make her look stately to keep them interested. After all, even Miss America doesn't cut it in the ratings nowadays.

comment #50

MAGGA says ...

This is a big mistake. The woman said two months ago that she didn't know what a vice president did, two years ago that she paid no attention to the Iraq war, said at the time of the Bridge To Nowhere that she supported it because Alaska was in a position to get a lot of earmarked funds at the time, yet made it a big point to mention that she was against it in her speech, is supposed to be against wasteful spending but attained an enourmous amount of earmarked funds in the last two years, is adamantly against pre-marital sex in a very moralistic way as well as being opposed to teaching about birth control while her daughter gets preagnant before getting married, doesn't believe global warming is man-made... She should be easy as all hell to discredit, and yet democrats are falling into the trap of questioning her experience, a dumb-as-hell move after making the focus about the judgement for months (and Palin lacks judgement as well as truthfulnes), while some of us online are making it about a conspiracy theory that alligns us with the predominently right-wing 9-11 truth movement.

McCain gave the election away on a silver platter on Friday when he insulted all women by expecting them to vote for an incompetent right-wing extremist who is against most of the rights the feminist movement have fought for and is demonstrably ignorant even in basic science, wanting creationism to be taught in schools. The Democrats are giving it right back to him as we speak. Stupid, stupid, stupid!

She is not a bad choice because she is a woman, she is a bad choice because she has proven at every opportunity that her judgement and knowledge of all important aspects of politics is almost non-existant. When presented with the opprtunity to shoot fish in a barrel, don't aim the gun at your own face.

comment #51

calraigh says ...

Arturo-again, my 'low opinion' of you, as you say, is neither here nor there. And no, I didn't 'oversimplify the question' you've oversimplified the issue quite enough for both of us. Venturing into space is one thing, setting foot on Air Force One is quite another. Forgive the obvious jibe but your reasoning is *ahem* out of this world.

It's possible to work up until the day you give birth ,
deliver a child and be back in the office 2 days later. Yes, really!
Of course it is difficult to compare any level of commitment to the job in question to that of George W. Bush. I mean- oh, wait...

comment #52

calraigh says ...

'' She is not a bad choice because she is a woman, she is a bad choice because she has proven at every opportunity that her judgement and knowledge of all important aspects of politics is almost non-existant. When presented with the opprtunity to shoot fish in a barrel, don't aim the gun at your own face. ''

Exactly. Palin's platform is insane enough without having to criticize her on the grounds that she can carry a child.

comment #53

George Prager says ...

Is anyone aware that Barack Obama is a black guy? It's the big elephant in the room.

comment #54

George Prager says ...

Pre-pick, Here's Pat Buchanan and Joe Scarborough on MSNBC last Friday morning talking about why picking Palin would be stupid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTbsbeY5k5k

comment #55

martindale says ...

Clinton received double-digit bounces after his conventions, and Carter also had a huge lead after his. For Obama to be up by single digits shouldn't provide much comfort. Zogby has McCain up two.

comment #56

D.Z. says ...

calraigh: "Venturing into space is one thing, setting foot on Air Force One is quite another."

It's true that you might have a better probability of surviving a plane crash versus burning up in the atmosphere, but the risks are still the same.

"It's possible to work up until the day you give birth ,
deliver a child and be back in the office 2 days later."

It's possible, but generally bad for the baby, which is why hospitals got scrutiny for kicking out mothers that early.

"Of course it is difficult to compare any level of commitment to the job in question to that of George W. Bush."

Your argument against Bush just reinforces the need for someone capable of doing their job.

comment #57

D.Z. says ...

martindale: Clinton and Carter were also up against bigger pushovers than McCain.

comment #58

calraigh says ...

D.Z - When you get a clue, know what you're talking about and realize making sweeping generalizations is tantamount to publicly proclaiming '' I am an idiot '', then comment. Otherwise, close the mouthy-talky thing on your face. I refuse to argue the point about '' Woman In Space''. I value my head too much and fear it would explode from the vast amounts of idiocy that would be required.

Your inferral that a woman that becomes pregnant is incapable of becoming POTUS is the result of adolescent reasoning., something which you seem to apply to all things, always.

I think everyone here would agree on that.

comment #59

arturobandini2 says ...

Calraigh, if what you say is really true, we should abolish maternity leave altogether. If having a baby only distracts from the job for 48 hours, then two "sick days" off should be sufficient.

I've tried to be polite and apologize in advance for my naivete, but your own temperament in answering this question speaks volumes.

comment #60

JapAdapters says ...

If you bait them, they will come.

I thought you didn't want them here.

comment #61

calraigh says ...

Arturo-

Maternity leave applies to both parents. The father can take it also (and it's optional) What if a male president's wife becomes pregnant and he needs to take time off to help HER? Obama and his wife are still rather young. What if they wanted a third? Should only men who cannot reproduce (or opt for a vasectomy) be able to become president?

comment #62

arturobandini2 says ...

Calraigh, after thinking about it these last 24 hours, I've decided that I would prefer a President (male or female) not to reproduce while in office. Doesn't mean I would expect them to quit or abort if that happened. But if a gung-ho baby factory is on the ticket, that would definitely be a deciding factor when I vote.

I brought this topic up, btw, after a hearing some ladies discuss this at a Labor Day party (how appropriate). Hadn't entered my mind previously. All the women who'd given birth seemed to think that morning sickness and the Oval Officer were not a good match.

comment #63

calraigh says ...

Arturo I agree, I think while in office, sacrifices have to be made and proficient reproduction is surely one of them. However becoming pregnant and being a 'gung-ho baby factory ' are not the same thing. While we're on the topic,I don't want the gung-ho individual you're referring to elected to office either. I think the appropriate phrase for that particular instance would be 'the end is nigh' or ' Jesus H. Christ, we're doomed.'

These 'ladies'; any particular political affiliation?

comment #64

Richardson says ...

"The average post-convention bump for Democrats is 16 points, which is about what Kerry got after his convention."

Do you have a source on that? Because it's not true.

comment #65

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