comment #1

Bubyubb says ...

"Most voters of her ilk are probably going to break for McCain, which might mean a final national lead for Obama in the range of six or seven points rather than nine or ten when all is said and done."

Unless his lead is really only 4 or 5 in the first place, in which case it means President McCain.

Ultimately, this race has come down to what it probably always was-- urban Dems (a heavily black group, of course) who depend on the government versus suburban/rural whites who are suspicious of the government. Certainly Obama's rhetoric in the last few days has been heavily weighted not only toward people who do think government is the solution, but who think that things like dreams of entrepreneurship are cruel fantasies. (Pretty funny that women on a TV show mocked a guy who dreamed of having a plumbing biz-- because, of course, becoming a TV star is within everyone's grasp, but having a plumbing business is a one in a million shot.)

So I wouldn't measure for drapes yet on either side. I think the election, which was a pretty easy referendum on Bush for 23 of the last 24 months, suddenly shifted into deeper territory that's fundamental about how people see their chances in life. I'm not convinced that the realignment of the parties or hatred of the incumbent cuts that deep.

comment #2

Rod32303 says ...

Because "of the government", urban blacks, of which I am a member, got the right TO vote. Something many suburban/rules whites wanted to keep from people of color back in 1964, the year I was born.

My father is a two tour veteran of Vietnam, retired Colonel and he and my mother own their own six bedroom, four bath house here in Tallahassee Florida. My Dad, who grew up working on banana boats and signing shoes, who got a scholarship to play football for an Historically Black College or University (HBCU), who, when he graduated from that college, was commissioned a second lieutenant in the US Army, and served there for over 20 years, then changed careers and worked for the state of Florida for another 20. My father, who is in that tax bracket NOW that Joe the Plumber dreams of attaining, the one who will not receive the tax break Obama speaks of...will be voting for Barack Obama.

He is 75. He said his chances in this life, trough hard hard work and determination and a lot of luck, HIS chances have been rewarding and awesome. He too, dreamed of being successful and getting out the the streets of a segregated Tampa (a place he loves as his home still, by the way), and he's pretty convinced a realignment of the parties cuts pretty deep.

As a school teacher who has to work two other part time jobs to make ends meet, I too, will be voting for Obama. Voting this way hasn't soured me on my professional dreams, but made me think that they are possible.

You know, fyi.

comment #3

BurmaShave says ...

Do we know where Sneider's parents are from?

comment #4

Marcello says ...

Belloc: We all depend on the government, you moron. Though some of us like to pretend we don't, and that there's no such thing as inequality, and that justice would be better served if "individual responsibility" replaced the rule of law.

comment #5

Rod32303 says ...

shit. SHINING shoes instead of SIGNING them.

comment #6

Bubyubb says ...

Interesting that everyone took a simple statement of fact for an attack. (And responded so thoughtfully, in Marcello's case.)

I think the massive movement of urban blacks into public sector employment is one of the great liberal success stories. Indeed, maybe it's the one part of the Great Society's economic program that was successful. All the same, it would be moronic not to see that it helped create and harden the line between red state rurals (who see themselves as not dependent on government-- though that's not as true as they believe-- and value entrepreneurship) and blue state urbans (where public sector employment and related union workforces are, needless to say, big players politically and economically, and much more accepted as the focus of one's ambition in life).

Obama's recent comments played right into that divide, not necessarily to his advantage with the independent voters he needs to attract, and McCain took advantage of it. You know, like happens in elections every four years.

comment #7

Jack Price says ...

No worries Rod, that was still a great post regardless.

comment #8

corey3rd says ...

another new low:

"Jewish Americans cannot afford to make the wrong decision on Tuesday, November 4th, 2008," the e-mail reads. "Many of our ancestors ignored the warning signs in the 1930s and 1940s and made a tragic mistake. Let's not make a similar one this year!"
--Paid for by the Republican Federal Committee of PA — Victory 2008.

Between the "B" Girl in Pittsburgh claiming she was nearly raped and knifed by a black man and this email saying Obama will be Hitler Jr, how can anyone be undecided about what people are worth your vote.

comment #9

Rod32303 says ...

I don't know. I take issue with the verb "depends" and the adjective "suspicious" used in such divisive terms. I will tell you that there are many black urbans who are suspicious of the government, and there are many white rurals who depend on it also (i.e. government checks for assistance, etc.). Maybe a simple "SOME of whom" before labeling would have made a difference. Whether you meant it or not, there is a definite tone in your post.

And I would never call an opinion a statement of fact, however strongly I believe that opinion to be fact.

comment #10

buster says ...

I know plenty of people who are still undecided. These are sccessful, thoughtful, reflective people, so your characterization that anyone yet to decideis of questionable caliber is, well, questionable.

It's not a matter of people questioning Obama's intentions, merely his methods, and whether they will deepen our economic decline. Resolved to vote for Obama, this is an area of his that still gives me great unease.

Jeffrey, you should spend more time assessing your own rigid, narrow conservative-like qualities than worrying about and judging some middle-aged undecided in PA.

comment #11

huntermdaniels says ...

That's weird, because almost of the black youths I know are disaffected from the government. Many, including a large minority of very vocal media figures, even think that the government invented AIDS.

And while that doesn't make too much sense, there was the whole debacle where the CIA sold confiscated cocaine at discount prices to inner city proto-gangs, thus setting off the crack wars of the 1980s. The CIA then uses this money to fund a secret war in south America. At the end of this conflict the CIA turned around and sold the weapons to the gangs, who were now Bloods and Crips. Suddenly you had military machine guns in the hands of 12-year olds. A new negative stereotype about black people and a way to successfully dismantle the Black Panther infrastructure.

I didn't believe this one either...until I found the extensively researched article by a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist who was crucified for reporting it. He lost everything and ended up killing himself a few years back.

comment #12

Sabina E says ...

in my opinion, people who are "undecided" at this point are stupid, lazy, and uninformed. WAKE UP AND PAY ATTENTION TO THE NEWS, PEOPLE!!!!

comment #13

D.Z. says ...

Belloc: "urban Dems (a heavily black group, of course) who depend on the government"

Why can't they be like rich white CEOs and work for their money? Oh, wait...

"Certainly Obama's rhetoric in the last few days has been heavily weighted not only toward people who do think government is the solution, but who think that things like dreams of entrepreneurship are cruel fantasies."

Given that entrepreneurs can't get any money right now, that's an accurate assessment.

"Pretty funny that women on a TV show mocked a guy who dreamed of having a plumbing biz-- because, of course, becoming a TV star is within everyone's grasp, but having a plumbing business is a one in a million shot."

It is, if you're broke.

"blue state urbans (where public sector employment and related union workforces are, needless to say, big players politically and economically, and much more accepted as the focus of one's ambition in life"

No one actually wants to work for a menial union job most of their life. But the non-union jobs tend to be less available(Unless you want to move to Latin America or SE Asia) and more exploitive.

corey: The Republicans also like casually dropping the word "holocaust" in regard to a Dem win.

buster: They question his methods, but not those of Bush III?

comment #14

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