comment #1

NotImpressed1Yet says ...

Scorcese handled accents in Last Temptation of Christ brilliantly by making them all sound like they were from Brooklyn (especially Keitel). And I'm not being sarcastic, it actually worked! It made it that much creepier when David Bowie comes in as Pontius Pilate with his british accent intact. Cool shit.

comment #2

roquentin says ...

It's Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge, not Incident.

comment #3

btwnproductions says ...

The whole idea of idealistic Nazi/Nazi-affiliated soldiers sticks in the craw. Like these guys, once they had taken down Hitler, would have stopped the war, dismantled the concentratiion camps, and preached peace and harmony. What was their gameplan?

comment #4

Geoff says ...

No kidding. I would like to know if these guys still hated Jews. If so, fuck 'em

comment #5

lbeale says ...

I just wrote a piece for Newsday on the most miscast roles in Hollywood history, and the hook was Tom Cruise in this flick. I haven't seen the movie, but in the trailers he looks stiff and ridiculous, like a little boy trying to prove he's a man.

comment #6

snoop says ...

I love Occurence of Owl Creek Bridge, and I do think that would've been an interesting way to go with this film.

However, I think it would've too closely resembled the exact same twist in last year's Atonement. This would somehow lessen both movies, at least in my mind, by turning the twist into a gimmick.

To put it another way: When it turned out that Bruce Willis was a ghost at the end of Sixth Sense, it was, to paraphrase Andy Samberg, jizz in my pants worthy.

But when I saw The Others, which had a very similar twist, it made me value both movies a little bit less.

Unfair? Absolutely. But that's how it goes, when things become too generic. It's why people have a hard time realizing just how great certain classics are - they've seen the greatness of these films stolen too many times (and packaged with better sound and visuals to boot), and so they are viewed as less impressive.

comment #7

p.Vice says ...

There was a Dirty Dozen TV movie that found the Dozen going on some assassination mission and lucking into having a shot at Hitler. NOT SO FAST, tho, sez Lee Marvin, who explains that while it appears an obvious way to cripple the Germans, it may have unexpected consequences that might actually prolong or strengthen the Axis resolve. It's important to act on long-term plans and not just a quick bid for attention.

So I think it's pretty clear that Valkyrie's biggest problem is that it doesn't have any Lee Marvin.

comment #8

lonniechung says ...

This movie was a goner the second Tom Cruise jumped on the couch. He's still apologizing for that bender (witness his "glib" backpedaling as of late), and it ruined this movie from the outset. Admit it Jeff, the grandiose beginnings, the re-shoots, the whispering of problems all fall in line with the downward spiral of Tom Cruise. People no longer root for him, and the negative buzz follows. I have no interest in seeing this movie because of the built-in spoiler - you know how it ends. It's hard to make a suspense-thriller about a plot to kill Hitler, and while your idea for a different route is interesting, it still wouldn't get people in the theaters. Tom Cruise has become box-office poison and the movie lacks punch regardless of how it plays.

comment #9

DarthCorleone says ...

Let's not forget it's not just "An Occurrence At Owl Creek Bridge" and Atonement that have used that device. Brazil and Last Temptation Of Christ (coincidentally mentioned above regarding accents) employed it as well. (I also like to interpret the third act of Minority Report in that manner.) I'm sure there are many other references and probably a filmic adaptation of the story itself.

That story has always stuck with me. I don't remember what year I first read it, but it was before I saw any films that used the twist, so it will always be the original for me.

Incidentally, roquentin, "Incident" is a valid alternate title per my understanding, but I don't know the details on that.

comment #10

bmcintire says ...

Saw it, liked it fine. Cruise, though not the perfect choice for the lead (due to his celebrity status akin to Angelina Jolie's and Brad Pitt's) was solid. And the spoiled-ending cop-out applies no more here than it did with THE ASSASSINATIONON OF JESSE JAMES or, frankly, any movie involving a conflict whose outcome we already know. See; any WWI or WWII flick.

And lbeale - Your "hook" to a story about miscast performances is based upon a performance you haven't seen? Thanks for giving creedence to why I think Newsday is a fucking rag harkening the death of print journalism. Job well done.

comment #11

lazespud says ...

Now we know why Jess is a blogger and not a screenwriter... The whole "it was just me mulling the possibilities in the last moment of my life" thing from Owl Creek and Jacob's ladder only really works if you go in cold with no idea of the characters and the history of them. I may be mistaken, but I think most people know Hitler didn't die in an assassination attempt. You go through those other movies thinking that the lead character is a living, breathing person, and the final minutes of each film pulls the curtain back and asks you to reevaluate the entire narrative. If Hitler died in an assassination attempt, the audience would go "oh, this is an alternative history" because they knew it was not true.

An alternate history version might be interesting, I guess. But why "jerk the chain in the final 20 minutes" and show it didn't happen? WTF? What would the point to that be? There is no way that that movie wouldn't be the worst movie of the year. No way whatsoever.

comment #12

bmcintire says ...

Wow - lots of typos in that last one!

And for a horrible exercise in might-have-been outcomes, please witness THE LIFE BEFORE HER EYES. Why anyone at any point said "yes" to that thing is beyond me.

comment #13

lbeale says ...

Thanks, bmcintire. Appreciate the gratuitous slam. But while you're at it, use your dictionary. Harken means to 'listen attentively.' Your usage is incorrect.

comment #14

ZayTonday says ...

When I saw the title of this post: "How To Fix It" I was hoping he was talking about TypeKey.

Oh and thanks for spoiling Inglorious Basterds for me.

comment #15

Richard_Stone says ...

I just figured out how they should have fixed A Night To Remember. Basically, they should have used the special effects from Cameron's Titanic and create a character played by Leonardo Dicaprio.

If only Roy Ward Baker had asked me in 1956, I would have told it to his stupid face.

comment #16

iamjoe says ...

I agree with bmcintire completely. It's completely irresponsible for lbeale (or any JOURNALIST) to comment on a performance that they haven't even seen. There is ZERO integrity in that. I think I will look for this NEWSWEEK article, and write a letter to the editor referencing this thread.
I mean, come on? I would expect things like this from FOX News...

comment #17

aspiringcrackaddict says ...

@lbeale

Thanks for giving creedence to why I think Newsday is a fucking rag heralding the death of print journalism. Job well done.

Despite his error, the substance of bmcintire argument is sound.

comment #18

bmcintire says ...

Sorry lbeal, I meant hastening. Christmas Carol overload almost had me typing heralding as well.

And you are welcome for the gratuitous, yet well-earned slam.

comment #19

AndrewOwens says ...

I'm still looking forward to this - I love WWII films and Men on a Mission films, and Singer has never really let me down, so I'm there.

On the accent front my favorite is Dangerous Laisions where the aristos are American and the peasants are Scottish. Great movie.

comment #20

LYT says ...

I think film-wise, Carnival of Souls is the original "dead the whole time" twist ending, and certainly a HUGE influence on Jacob's Ladder (which has always been hard for me to swallow because it imagines that a guy who died in Vietnam is able to perfectly envision the '80s with complete accuracy while dying).

Anyone got one earlier than that?

comment #21

MilkMan says ...

I was under the assumption that Jacob's Ladder took place in 1974.

I just don't understand why anyone would want to see a movie about a failed assassaniation attempt. Unless, of course, the entire movie is, a la Kubrick, about how men with plans are always at the mercy of contigency. Or it's a black comedy. Valkyrie strikes me as neither type of movie. Singer has no sense of humor, and neither does Cruise, his role in Tropic Thunder Exhibit "A" in why he needs strong writing to make him funny (PTA), and his Golden Globe nom notwithstanding. The Foreign Press Association is a small group of anti-journalists (similar to those who work for Newsday) who live to eat rubber chicken lunches provided by the studios.

comment #22

lipranzer says ...

"I just don't understand why anyone would want to see a movie about a failed assassaniation attempt."

Worked pretty well for THE DAY OF THE JACKAL.

comment #23

Rich S. says ...

There is actually a filmed version of Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge. It was a French production but appeared as an episode of Twilight Zone during the fifth season of hour-long episodes.

Why use the Owl Creek conceit? Just do Valkyrie as a "reimagining" or "alternate history" of WWII. Just make it clear that's what it is.

And then do a Lee Marvin to show that it wouldn't have changed much of anything or might have permitted the Russians to overrun Germany before the Allies could head them off. Much more interesting stuff.

comment #24

LYT says ...

Except that Valkyrie did actually happen, didn't it?

comment #25

Agent of Nerd 1 says ...

TonyR makes a great point about interracial relationships. Can't wait to see how they work that in to the plot of Valkyrie. But what were we talkin' bout again? I think if you're telling a true story, you should just tell the story well. No Twilight Zone ending is required.

comment #26

ZayTonday says ...

OK, I just got back from a screening. WTF Wells? Did you and I even see the same movie? I thought the accents were going to kill it for me too, but the way the started the movie out with a Stauffenberg VO in German fading into Cruise's voice in English coupled with the title card doing the same thing visually, although maybe a bit ham-handed, did the trick for me. It was expertly written, expertly shot and the whole cast did a great job.

Tom Cruise's crazy period made me do some reading up on the Church of Scientology, and I'm aware of how much of a sham it is, and it disgusts me how they exploit (aka enslave) their not as well-to-do followers and their well of ones as well in a way. But that doesn't take away from the fact that this is a great film that is every bit as good as The Usual Suspects (of course without the awesome twist).

comment #27

bfm says ...

I have no problem with the fact that you know going in that the plot will fail. There are plenty of films that sustain interest and suspense even when it's well known that the hero is doomed to either death or failure: as examples, Titanic, Braveheart, Bonnie and Clyde, United 93 and The Great Escape come to mind. The magic is in the telling, not the outcome.

comment #28

raskimono says ...

Saw Valkyrie last week at the screening at the Landmark. It is a solid. taut thriller and Cruise is excellent. The language thing is actually not a problem, surprisingly. To those who have complained about "the good nazis" which the movie never makes them out to be; one of the reasons for the coup d'etat was to close the concentration camps. It was one their planned acts after seizing power. All I can say is that valkyrie reminded of those Alistair Maclean books Hollywood used to turn into movies in the sixties and Brian Singer truly makes no wrong move. It is his best directed move.

comment #29

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

Good point, bfm. I was going to post something similar, but you said it better than I could at this hour, anyway.

Also, just think of any movie that gives away the "ending" first, then has the narrative backtrack to show how you got to that point. This was a cutting-edge technique of some of the great early sound filmmakers (Kurosawa, Kubrick, Welles, Hitchcock), and was a very popular mainstream technique in the late 90s-early 00s (from American Beauty to Memento).

comment #30

moorish says ...

The Tarantino "wish-fulfillment" ending of Basterds is total bullshit. Obviously with QT you expect a bit of OTT, but it totally ruined the script for me, which I already thought suffered from typical Tarantino bloar and, with the exception of Shosanna, a total lack of decent characterisation.

comment #31

moorish says ...

bloar? I meant bloat. Excuse typo!

comment #32

Belloc-Lowndes says ...

They could have fixed it by filming a different story, like the one about the Norwegian resistance attacking the Norsk Hydro plant, which was somewhat botched as The Heroes of Telemark. But that wouldn't have suited Tom Cruise's need to feel himself a hero big enough to take on Hitler and defeat all the thetans inside him.

comment #33

Belloc-Lowndes says ...

"The whole idea of idealistic Nazi/Nazi-affiliated soldiers sticks in the craw. Like these guys, once they had taken down Hitler, would have stopped the war, dismantled the concentratiion camps, and preached peace and harmony. What was their gameplan?"

Not to defend them too much, but basically they wanted to fight WWI (Germany as the natural dominant power in Europe) but not WWII (exterminate the Jews, crazy personality cult). Not that Tom Cruise would know anything about the latter.

comment #34

bluefugue says ...

"This movie was a goner the second Tom Cruise jumped on the couch. He's still apologizing for that bender (witness his "glib" backpedaling as of late), and it ruined this movie from the outset. Admit it Jeff, the grandiose beginnings, the re-shoots, the whispering of problems all fall in line with the downward spiral of Tom Cruise. People no longer root for him, and the negative buzz follows. I have no interest in seeing this movie because of the built-in spoiler - you know how it ends. It's hard to make a suspense-thriller about a plot to kill Hitler, and while your idea for a different route is interesting, it still wouldn't get people in the theaters. Tom Cruise has become box-office poison and the movie lacks punch regardless of how it plays."

You seem to be conflating the movie's box office reception with its aesthetic merit. In 50 years who will care about the couch jumping? Isn't it possible the movie turned out well regardless of Tom's falling star?

comment #35

George Prager says ...

Where's Paul Verhoeven when you really need him?

comment #36

ZayTonday says ...

I think Cruise did Valkyrie because deep down inside he wants to be the Church of Scientology's Stauffenberg, minus the whole failing and being executed part. The CoS has done unspeakable things to its Sea Org members and is a totalitarian cult with its ultimate stated aim from LRH being to control the world to a point where their rules supercede the law.

Tom knows he can't do it though because if he even said one bad word publicly about the CoS they would release all of the information inside his "PC Folder" which contains everything he has revealed during his auditing sessions.