comment #1

Rich S. says ...

I thought Terminator: Salvation was shooting for an "R" rating. Not exactly family film territory, in any event.

I understand that this movie is supposed to be about Nemo's experiences as slave labor, leading to his escape and construction of the Nautilus. It won't be as good as 20K, of course. How can it? It won't have Kirk Douglas, Peter Lorre or James Mason. But it might not be too bad.

comment #2

DeafBrownTrashPunk says ...

McG? What a waste of space.

Family films today aren't just that good anymore. Sorry, but I'm being honest. I have a soft spot for classic live-action family movies (Bedknobs and Broomsticks, the Goonies, The Sandlot, Candleshoe, etc).

I just don't see any family films like that today. What a shame. The only family movies we have nowadays are big-budget fantasy films *cough Harry Potter* and well, it's a bit overtired now.

comment #3

scooterzz says ...

there are some who would say he'd been consigned to the 'family film ghetto' with the 'charlies angels' movies...they were pg-13 and i'm guessing that's what his 'nemo' will shoot for....

comment #4

actionman says ...

T4 is PG-13

comment #5

Nick Rogers says ...

actionman: Sad news indeed.

Wells: Something tells me they're shooting for a "Pirates of the Caribbean" vibe. Considering I don't recall seeing anyone take a bullet to the head in a Disney movie prior to the final "PotC," I wouldn't say McG ia in a family-film ghetto.

comment #6

Floyd Thursby says ...

The Spirit is PG-13 but has violence, sexual situations, a nifty shot of Scarlett's lung power, a lovely glimpse of Eva's lovely behind, and tons of profanity. Did I mention Eva's lovely behind?

comment #7

Nick Rogers says ...

"The Spirit" also blows, doesn't it?

comment #8

NotImpressed1Yet says ...

Is anyone besides me holding out irrational hope that T4 will be the movie where McG somehow makes something good? I mean, I know it's gonna suck. It's gonna be terrible. But maybe, just maybe it won't?

And it's too bad about the PG-13 rating, but there's still a lot you can do there. I'm a lot more worried about the director than I am the rating.

comment #9

George Prager says ...

If family films don't work out, he can always film centerfolds for Twistys. Or if that doesn't pan out, he can do colostomy bag instructional DVDs.

comment #10

DeafBrownTrashPunk says ...

oh please, PG-13 ratings are such a fallacy. Either you're PG or you're R, you can't have it both way.

comment #11

Chase Kahn says ...

I love how McG said (about T4) that he wanted to make a mix of 'Transformers' and 'Children of Men' -- the hell?

comment #12

drbob says ...

The original Terminator would easily garner a PG-13 today. Except for "Fuck you, asshole," and a brief glimpse of Arnold's flapping manhood, there is nothing worthy of an R in that movie. And, T-2 could practically be shown uncut on regular TV.

comment #13

actionman says ...

Dr. Bob -- I'll admit that the recent blurring of the PG-13 and R ratings are getting increasingly more ridiculous, but if you recall, there is some fairly bloody and grisly violence in T2. Don't remember much from T1 as I've only seen it once and it was years ago.

T4 will have lots of intensity I am betting, just not a lot of blood.

However, I must say, I am infinitely more excited for Transformers 2 than I am for T4.

comment #14

actionman says ...

And Chase, as lame as McG sounds in interviews and as shitty as his output has been thus far, his comment that T4 will be like a cross between Children of Men and Transformers does make a little sense. The desperation, burnt-out social and environmental landscapes of Children of Men mixed with the technical superiority of Transformers is a mix I could see T4 becoming.

If Bale thought it was worth his time then it's gotta be at least a solid B/B+ in terms of summer movie entertainment. Right?

comment #15

Rich S. says ...

It's funny, but I wonder how much the "R" rating even means any more.

Our cable company has a free on-demand channel that shows a lot of old movies from TCM and the like. About two months ago, they added Fear.net programming. It's all horror movies and they are 100% uncut.

I just finished watching the direct-to-video adaptation of Clive Barker's Midnight Meat Train. It was of relatively high quality for that type of film. Among other things, it showed a serial killer preparing human corpses by removing their teeth, eyeballs and fingernails. It also showed a man ripping another man's tongue out and eating it raw.

This was on free television, without any sort of filter or special permission required to view it. If a reasonably tech-savvy 10 year old kid can watch that at home, what do theater ratings matter any more?

comment #16

Josh Massey says ...

"The original Terminator would easily garner a PG-13 today."

No way. Multiple uses of the F-word, the horror of the police station scene, a couple male backsides, and Hamilton's boobies. It would still be rated R in 2009.

comment #17

storymark says ...

I was very down on T4 when McG was announced, but everything I've seen of it I've liked, his interviews on the topic have been reassuring, and hearing that Jonathan Nolan rewrote the script took it up several notches on my anticipation scale.

comment #18

storymark says ...

Oh, and I don't remember anything particularly gristly in T2, which as noted, is shown virtually uncut on TV these days.

comment #19

actionman says ...

Yes, the involvement of Jonathan Nolan is interesting and certainly promising.

It's the apparent involvement of Paul Haggis on the project that is pretty strange...can anyone validate this rumor I heard a few weeks ago?

comment #20

scooterzz says ...

actually, mmt was originally supposed to be theatrical and then got reduced to a little, tiny release before going dvd....

comment #21

NotImpressed1Yet says ...

The Dark Knight shows you can do lots of cool stuff within the constraints of a PG13 rating. If there's a problem with T4, it won't be the rating.

I didn't know Jonathon Nolan helped with the screenplay. That makes me feel a little bit better.

But the more I hear Transformers in relation to T4, the more worried I get. That movie is indefensible trash, and the posterboy for everything that is awful about lowest common denominator big budget spectacle. And I could care less how good the effects are in it because ultimately they are served up on a plate of shit.

comment #22

Burbanked says ...

Hang on a second: has TS actually been rated yet? I know the producers have talked about PG13, but I've also read that some scenes shot would definitely be R. I think R would suit the material better - as it would have DIE HARD 4 - but we're talking here like it's a done deal.

comment #23

Scott Mendelson says ...

As for T4's PG-13, if it has the same amount of violence/gore as The Sarah Conner Chronicles, I think we'll be ok. As it is, T3 apparently had gore ADDED to secure said R-rating back in 2003. And Terminator 2 could more easily score a PG-13 than T1 today. Edit around Robert Patrick's two bloody arm-spear/pointy finger murders, and tone down the shooting death of Dyson, and the rest of the film is pretty clean, violence wise. The sheer amount of present-day violence in T1 (the seventeen cops shot dead in the police station for example) and the general brutality of said murders would make it far harder to edit down to a PG-13.

comment #24

Ardee-El says ...

My new definition of anguish: Spend five years of your life researching and writing a novel & screenplay based on the early life of Prince Dakkar/Captain Nemo and have McG come along at the eleventh hour to do (marginally) the same story.

My prediction is that rather than being a thoughtful examination of the character's early and therefore formative years (his marriage, his life abroad, the Indian Mutiny, etc.), it will something akin to "Pirates of the Caribbean IV: The Rise of Captain Nemo."

At least with McG at the head of a submarine movie, it's sure to sink.

(Pardon my vitriol.)

comment #25

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

"It's the apparent involvement of Paul Haggis on the project that is pretty strange...can anyone validate this rumor I heard a few weeks ago?"

True; presumably it's largely his sections of the script that Nolan was hired to re-write.

What exactly is strange about it? I'm sure you're well-aware that he was involved in the latest Bond reboot cycle (i.e. CR and QoS).

comment #26

actionman says ...

Yes, I knew about his work on Bond. The Terminator franchise just seemed like a weird pairing for Haggis.

comment #27

Chase Kahn says ...

I see what you're saying, actionman -- but in my books, 'Children of Men' is one of the best films of the decade and 'Transformers' is on the complete opposite end of the spectrum. A mix of the two just seems like a very odd pairing.

I'm sure 'T4' will have it's fanboy-aimed CG fight scenes that will flex its budget, but the Terminator series just keeps getting loopier with every installment (regardless of the medium). I'm sure it will be about as well written as an episode of 'Heroes'...

comment #28

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

Yeah I guess Paul H. does have a complete lack of sci-fi on his resume, even bad sci-fi. It doesn't seem to be a genre he's ever breached. Not that dramas are the better for being breached by him...

The pairing of McG and Haggis, combined with the fact that the fourth film in a series is very rarely worthwhile (let alone great) has me pretty spooked on this one. I'm still holding out a small sliver of hope because I thought the same thing about the third one, and I thought it actually delivered in spades.

comment #29

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

You'll have to forgive actionman, Chase. He generally has good taste in film, but he loses his shit when a Bay or a Scott scrolls across the opening credits :-P.

comment #30

actionman says ...

Ha-ha, Kane. Bay knows what he's doing. He's not making art, he's making entertainment. Very good looking entertainment. That's all I need to say.

And Chase -- comparing COM to Transformers wasn't really what I was trying to do. COM is a masterpiece, one of the best films of the decade. Transformers is good summer fun.

comment #31

storymark says ...

Art and entertainment are not mutually exclusive. Transformers was glossy lowest-com-denom crap. Which happened to be entertaining for those lower denominators.

comment #32

markj says ...

@actionman - You need to watch The Terminator a few more times, it's a classic.

Bay is a pretty shooter but he's singlehandedly brought down the action genre. By ignoring the rules of classical cinema (particularly 'crossing the line') Bay ushered in an era of incoherence. Two prime examples - the opening car chase of Quantum of Solace and the thermo-vision POV 'what-the-hell is going on' climax of The Dark Knight. The action directors of today believe rapid cutting and multiple camera shooting can generate excitement, whereas all it really does is confuse the viewer, especially in spatial/geographic terms.

Cameron mastered the action sequence, check out the bar shootout in Terminator, the first rescue/escape in Aliens, the canal chase from T2, the toilet fight/horse chase/limo going off end of shattered bridge/harrier jet-skyscraper interface from True Lies. They are all beautifully staged, shot and edited and are all genuinely exciting.

Hopefully Cameron's return with 'Avatar' will show the hack pack of Bay, McG, Wiseman and Ratner where they have been going wrong these past years.

comment #33

actionman says ...

I definitely know that I am not a part of the lowest-com-denom, storymark. Yet, I found Transformers to be mightily enjoyable. What say you?

comment #34

NotImpressed1Yet says ...

I was not entertained for one second by Transformers. Aside from the impressive CGI, there was nothing of any redeeming value. Nothing at all. I mean, this was offensively bad.

comment #35

actionman says ...

Interesting comments, Markj. Can't say I agree with you on any of 'em, though.

The opening car chase in QoS was terrific -- made total sense, I knew what was going on, never had a problem following it, and thought it was a visceral rush. Very reminiscent of the work done in the last two Borune films, which were awesome by my action-movie standards.

The night-vision goggles scene in TDK was fine by me.

Cameron is indeed an action maestro. In total agreement that he knows how to stage a wonderful action set piece.

But lumping Bay in with Wiseman, Ratner, and McG is just unfair. Bay's got more talent in his ass-hair than those clowns do in their limited imaginations.

And it's funny, I have no spark to see Avatar. Maybe it's my reluctance to anything mo-cap. And thus far, I have been mostly underwhelmed by the new 3-D movement, though watching Polar Express in 3-D was a genuine rush.

comment #36

actionman says ...

Notimpressed -- offensively bad is something like The Happening or Get Smart.

comment #37

NotImpressed1Yet says ...

Ok, maybe you're right actionman.

After all, transformers did contains moments of genius like this:

http://www.flixster.com/actor/john-turturro-videos/bumble-bee-goes-pee-10885281

I hope John Turturro was able to buy a nice summer house with the money he got paid for this.

comment #38

actionman says ...

Dude, I thought Transformers had the best visual effects I've ever seen. Megan Fox is easy on the eyes. And I like seeing shit blow up in Michael Bay world. What's wrong with that? I never said it was a great film, or even a very good one. It's not much as a piece of cinema but in terms of it serving as a sexy piece of entertainment, it works. There's 31 flavors out there.

comment #39

JapAdapters says ...

... And that's the argument used by people who liked Get Smart and The Happening.

Obviously people like what they like, but I found Transformers to be THE biggest steaming pile of shit I've ever seen, and I went into knowing it was just a "big summer movie." Michael Bay can't even do that right, though the CG was fantastic.

comment #40

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

I'm not a Michael Bay defender by any means, but I actually found his pre-Armageddon output fairly tolerable. Bad Boys was serviceable as a first film, nothing spectacular (and lacked a decent villain), but had some nice photography, cars, and chicks.

Despite the emergence of his ADD-editing style in The Rock, I still consider it some kind of pop-masterpiece. All the actors aligned just right, those great uncredited Tarantino lines, and the concept of playing army men on Alcatraz is just too irresistible for the 10 year-old boy in me that just won't grow up. It's more fun than it has any damn right to be.

His cameo in Mystery Men was quite funny, even though I have a feeling playing an obnoxious frat boy somehow didn't require much (if any) acting. Yeah, that's about all the good things I have to say about Michael Bay so I'll stop there.

comment #41

Burbanked says ...

I have to say that I'm tired of the "it's just big summer entertainment" argument when it comes to Bay and TRANSFORMERS. Big summer entertainment doesn't have to be mindless, poorly plotted and with bad dialogue and acting. "Easy on the eyes", "best visual effects" and "shit blowing up" is simply not enough. Bay may be better at it than Ratner and the rest, but he's the Hack Grandaddy and the reason Hack Juniors keep getting work.

RAIDERS, T2, TRUE LIES, BACK TO THE FUTURE, JAWS and 18 dozen others can be given as examples of Big! Movie! Making! that also tell coherent, intelligent stories and whose characters are fully-formed with dramatic needs, depth, etc. Bay is not capable of doing this.

comment #42

JapAdapters says ...

Hell, how about 20K Leagues Under the Sea?

comment #43

storymark says ...

Exactly, Burbanked. I liked some Bay movies, mainly the Rock, and I really, really wanted to like Transformers. But aside from cool FX and a hot chick, the movie was a piece of shit. Dumb from top to bottom. And it's pretty sad when a huge Hollywood production is dumbed down from a friggin kid's show.

comment #44

D.Z. says ...

Jeff: It'll probably just be another Lost in Space-style disaster.

Rich: Surprised they played Meat Train anywhere on tv, as I hear Barker's been "black-listed" by LGF. http://www.cityonfire.com/hkrelated/midnightmeattrain.html

scooter: Actually, it's not out on DVD for a month, but I'm surprised it finally got a release date. Personally, I thought this flick got a crappier raw deal than Idiocracy. At least people heard about the latter film. BTW, I also recommend the director's other work: Versus, Azumi, and Godzilla: Final Wars.

actionman: TF is good summer fun for people who don't mind talking and texting during movies. It's not fun for people who actually want to be entertained.

mark: Personally, how you feel about Avatar is what I hope to feel about that upcoming Sly ensemble flick.

Jap: The Get Smart remake was ok, relative to The Nude Bomb, anyway.

comment #45

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

Wow, a Japanese director tackling a Godzilla movie...there's that cutting-edge original Asian cinema that D.Z. is always championing against "copycats" like Tarantino...

comment #46

D.Z. says ...

Kane: When QT can shoot a remake of Versus, then we'll talk.

comment #47

markj says ...

D.Z. : The Expendables looks like a riot. Count me in.

comment #48

Deathtongue_Groupie says ...

SAT question for HE readers:

A red flag is to a bull what ________ is to D.Z.

comment #49

frankbooth says ...

"Don't remember much from T1 as I've only seen it once and it was years ago."

Hand over your user name, please. Are you going to go peacefully, or do I have to get rough?