comment #1

jjgittes says ...

Look, some of this Rourke rebirth thing is revisionist history.

Rourke is great in The Wrestler - he should win the Oscar, but it's not like he had a litany of great performances in his early career.

There is not one Rourke performance in the 80s that can stand with Penn's in At Close Range or Eric Roberts in Star 80 or even Tom Cruise's in Born in the Fourth of July.

Rourke is and always was a really talented guy.......and I feel great for him, but he was never Pacino in the 70s or anything.

comment #2

jjgittes says ...

Just meant to clarify : I meantioned Penn, Roberts, Cruise because those would have been some of his peers - he has a lot of good interesting work in the 80s for sure, but I just think it's being a little overblown.

comment #3

MindlessObamaton says ...

Nice little piece. Now can someone please explain why they have Catherine Keener going on about some chick no one knows and who I didn't hear of in 2008?

comment #4

BurmaShave says ...

It's about wasted potential jj, not necessarily a return to the pantheon, but I would put his work in RUMBLE FISH and BARFLY against anything you just mentioned, and BODY HEAT, DINER, POPE OF GREENWICH VILLAGE, ANGEL HEART and JOHNNY HANDSOME certainly qualifies him as one of the best of the 1980s.

comment #5

MilkMan says ...

I have to agree with Mr. Gittes. Eric Roberts' performance in Star 80 is one of the greats of screen acting. That and his performance in Runaway Train should make it so that he is spoken of in hushed tones, which he's not, which I don't know why.

It's a shame that no one ever mentions Kim Stanley when they talk about genius actors who couldn't handle success. Kim Stanley was as good an actor as any of the male actors mentioned, and she was just as batshit crazy as them too.

comment #6

The Hoyk says ...

Now can someone please explain why they have Catherine Keener going on about some chick no one knows and who I didn't hear of in 2008?
Because unlike you, plenty of people went to see CHARLIE BARTLETT, THE HOUSE BUNNY, and NICK AND NORAH'S INFINITE PLAYLIST, and while all those movies are extremely flawed, Kat Dennings had great presence in them. I know you use the "Mindless" moniker as some attempt at tired irony, but sometimes you really live up to the name. Turn down the snark once in a while, you might learn something.

comment #7

Chicago48 says ...

Has everybody forgotten Rourke as Marv in Sin City which I felt was Oscar-nom worthy? I remember when he came on screen and I'm thinking, who the f*** is that? That was a great role.

comment #8

TheJeff says ...

"Because unlike you, plenty of people went to see CHARLIE BARTLETT, THE HOUSE BUNNY, and NICK AND NORAH'S INFINITE PLAYLIST, and while all those movies are extremely flawed, Kat Dennings had great presence in them. I know you use the "Mindless" moniker as some attempt at tired irony, but sometimes you really live up to the name. Turn down the snark once in a while, you might learn something."

I can say without teensiest bit of snark or irony that I had never heard of her either. I looked up what she had been in after I read Keener's article. I think that it's fair to say that the films you list really aren't in the wheelhouse of most of the posters here.

comment #9

BurmaShave says ...

If you haven't heard of Kat Dennings you're not paying attention on a level that makes it mystifying you would be on a site like this. She's the fucking daughter from 40 YEAR OLD VIRGIN for fucks sake. A recognizable rising actress. I certainly think it's weird she was in that feature, but you two goofs are full of shit.

comment #10

Gordon27 says ...

While I side more with Burma and Hoyk on this one, I will say that it's funny to write an entire piece about her without mentioning a single film she's done in the last three years, especially given the assumption that the people being discussed were notable in 2008.

comment #11

rr3333 says ...

Now, if only Barry Levinson could be reborn. What was his last good movie? Wag The Dog?

comment #12

ZacharyTF says ...

Is it me or is that picture of Mickey stretched as if it was a widescreen picture streched to fullscreen by taking the top and bottom and pulling up and down?

comment #13

TheJeff says ...

"If you haven't heard of Kat Dennings you're not paying attention on a level that makes it mystifying you would be on a site like this. She's the fucking daughter from 40 YEAR OLD VIRGIN for fucks sake. A recognizable rising actress. I certainly think it's weird she was in that feature, but you two goofs are full of shit."

I knew that she was the daughter from 40-YEAR OLD VIRGIN after reading the article, but that didn't mean much to me. I didn't get why she was an important figure from 2008.

Why is it weird that I would be on a site like this? Wells doesn't write much about these kind of films. I know cinema. I have around 1,300 very good films on DVD. I see about 100 films a year, but I didn't see any of the ones Kat Denning was in last year. Am I mistaken in thinking that they were all films aimed squarely at teenagers? I haven't been one of those in over 15 years. It takes something like SUPERBAD getting very good reviews or catching some sort of cultural zeitgeist to get me into the theater for one of those.

comment #14

erniesouchak says ...

Comparing Rourke to Welles and Brando is DEFINITELY a stretch. Clift, not so much.

comment #15

Gordon27 says ...

TheJeff - Obviously, you missed the great debate 'round these parts, when 'House Bunny' came out, as to whether Anna Faris was an extremely talented comedic actress in desperate need of a good movie to appear in or just another talentless vaccuum that Hollywood is forcing on people.

But I believe her buzz came largely from 'Nick and Norah', which was supposed to launch her star, until the movie fizzled.

comment #16

btwnproductions says ...

Stanley only made four films, two of them leads. A fascinating presence but there's not much there for the average viewer to latch onto. There's a bio of her, "Female Brando," but I found it lacking.

comment #17

Luke Y. Thompson says ...

Wells wrote a fair bit about Nick and Norah, as I recall, especially the "gum in the toilet" moment.

comment #18

Sabina E says ...

why are journalists always so praising of self-destructive, nihilistic personalities? How overrated and cliched.

comment #19

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

Because those personalities are often creative geniuses (whether it be cinema, or any other field). It's not often that true visionaries are well-adjusted to the real world...obsessive personalities don't tend to be real strong in the everyday, stabile, day-to-day sense (of course there will always be the exceptions that prove the rule).

comment #20

lipranzer says ...

I am surprised Dennings was included in the magazine, but she definitely has potential; she helped make NICK & NORAH'S INFINITE PLAYLIST as engaging as it was (she couldn't do much for CHARLIE BARTLETT, but then again, nobody could redeem that smugfest passing for a comedy).

As for Rourke, I may not compare him to Brando, but certainly I think of him as a great talent who squandered it too often but could put it all together under the right circumstances, and even be the best part of a bad movie. Even in something as aggressively unwatchable as the remake of THE DESPERATE HOURS, Rourke could be worth watching (watch the scene where he intimidates Mimi Rogers into leaving a voice message for Kelly Lynch; it's menacing without overdoing it).

comment #21

Sabina E says ...

Because those personalities are often creative geniuses (whether it be cinema, or any other field). It's not often that true visionaries are well-adjusted to the real world...obsessive personalities don't tend to be real strong in the everyday, stabile, day-to-day sense (of course there will always be the exceptions that prove the rule).

very, very true. one example I can think of is Van Gogh. he was such an artistic genius that he went crazy and cut his ear off....

comment #22

Gordon27 says ...

"why are journalists always so praising of self-destructive, nihilistic personalities?"

The more extreme the contrast, the easier the story is to write. You've got somebody producing wonderful "art", maybe even beautiful art if you want to use that word, and you contrast it with the "real world" version of the person.

That's why nobody writes about Danny Boyle the calm, nice, incredibly polite family man, but people pounce on the story of "Danny Boyle exploits Indian children" (before they can even check the facts).

The downside is when artists decide that they have to act like that, to be proper artists, and they act like entitled assholes before they've ever actually done anything. (Anybody who went to film school worked with dozens of people to fit that bill.)

comment #23

Brian Walker says ...

That picture is way too big

comment #24

scooterzz says ...

at the risk of being booted....i wonder where the idea of posting about talented artists with self-destruction issues came from....i'll be over here by the elephant in the room....

comment #25

TVMCCA says ...

Too bad Barry never made the Jerry Lee Lewis film (would it have been GREAT BALLS OF FIRE?) with Mickey Rourke or the Dodd Darin bio of Bobby Darin and Sandra Dee (DREAM LOVER) with Johnny Depp as Bobby Darin.

comment #26

LexG says ...

Fuck, I hate how great, interesting threads on HE tend to flame out so fast...

Because I don't know about some of the curmudgeons at the top of the page, but to this teen of the 80s, ROURKE VERY MUCH *WAS* our De Niro, our Pacino, our Brando.

I first saw the guy when I was like 10 years old and sneaking peaks of Body Heat on cable. Rourke showed up talking with William Hurt and had that hushed voice and pompadour and did that Method thing where he taps his upper lip with his fingers, and I was like, Who the fuck IS this guy?

Soon after I saw Diner, then Rumble Fish, and the dude was FUCKING MESMERIZING. The only reason your misrepresentations are as they are is things like "Pope of Greenwich Village" and "Year of the Dragon" and "Angel Heart" and "Homeboy" and "Eureka" and shit AREN'T the enduring "sexy" movies of that day. Most of them are fairly forgotten by younger geeks, as they don't have that hipster film-school cachet today, unlike a lot of Penn and Cruise films that came from directors who still get heavy rewatch in fim geek circles and among film students.

By comparison, Cimino and Parker and Lyne and Schrader have been unfairly marginalized, and those are no longer the "cool" movies in the collective bullshit nostalgia. But have no doubt, back in the day that shit was powerful. I don't know another kid growing up who didn't watch fucking YEAR OF THE DRAGON like 50 times on VHS and run around doing a Rourke imitation on lines like "HOW CAN ANYBODY CARE TOO MUCH?"

He's BRANDO-GOOD in "Angel Heart," completely Dean-charismatic and anguished and charming and you cannot NOT watch him. Maybe some of these movies just aren't within you guys' particular film geek bailiwick, but that shouldn't diminish the magnetism and excitement that came with a new Rourke role or movie back in their day.

And KAT DENNINGS is HOT AS FUCK; Some of guys have fallen into that 30-something white guy trap where you tune out to youth culture, don't watch talk shows, don't read the magazines, barely go to malls or movies, and insulate yourselves in a wall of milquetoast white bread. Christ, get out there and sit through some movies with an EMO audience or read up on SCENE KIDS or listen to some goddamn hip-hop. Rage against getting old, for Christ's sake. Don't celebrate your own elderly white cluelessness.

comment #27

TVMCCA says ...

Gordon27 wrote:
The downside is when artists decide that they have to act like that, to be proper artists, and they act like entitled assholes before they've ever actually done anything. (Anybody who went to film school worked with dozens of people to fit that bill.)

Was a volunteer PA at AFI in 88-89; only a handful of first-year students I was around suffered from entitlement issues.

From that class of AFI fellows: Wally Pfister--a case of a nice professional finishing first.

comment #28

thatrader says ...

I understand that Dennings is attractive and an up and comer, but someone please explain to me why she's in the OSCAR issue along with NOMINEES Mickey Rourke, Sean Penn, Frank Langella, Brad Pitt, Kate Winsley, Robert Downey Jr., and Penelope Cruz?

That's why we're all fucking baffled here. She wasn't nominated for "Nick and Norah" and if the Times actually thought she was going to be, then the Times has more problems than we think.

comment #29

Circumvrent says ...

I just want to echo Chicago48's comments. With all this "resurrection of Mickey Rourke" narrative going on, I'm really disheartened that both the press and Rourke himself are neglecting to mention Rodriguez's role in bringing Mickey back into the mainstream. You can draw a straight line from SIN CITY to THE WRESTLER, and I remember a small but vocal minority (which, if I'm not wrong, included Wells) saying that what Rourke was doing was Oscar-worthy.

I know he had a falling out with Rodriguez and Tarantino over DEATH PROOF, but that's no reason to not acknowledge Rodriguez at all - and Rourke's personally been trying to spin it that 'frenemy' Sean Penn is the one who rescued him from obscurity by putting him in THE PLEDGE eight fucking years ago.

comment #30

Rich S. says ...

Maybe Mickey's just been in a mood pocket. It happens.

comment #31

York "Budd" Durden says ...

Levinson's incorrect about Rourke not having appeared on screen yet when he auditioned for Diner: He's one of the tank crew in 1941, and also has a small but memorable part in Heaven's Gate (though that wouldn't have been seen before Dec 1980 at the earliest).

comment #32

BurmaShave says ...

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=52678

Mickey's making another movie with Walter Hill. Fuck yeah.

comment #33

Rich S. says ...

I think it's also weird how we keep talking about Mickey's "comeback" and "time in the wilderness." True, The Wrestler appears to be a return to form, but according to his IMDB page, Mickey has made at least one movie every single year since 1979. There's a lot of actors that would kill to be that "out of work."

comment #34

Movie fan09 says ...

Circumvrent Author Profile Page says ...

I just want to echo Chicago48's comments. With all this "resurrection of Mickey Rourke" narrative going on, I'm really disheartened that both the press and Rourke himself are neglecting to mention Rodriguez's role in bringing Mickey back into the mainstream. You can draw a straight line from SIN CITY to THE WRESTLER, and I remember a small but vocal minority (which, if I'm not wrong, included Wells) saying that what Rourke was doing was Oscar-worthy.

I know he had a falling out with Rodriguez and Tarantino over DEATH PROOF, but that's no reason to not acknowledge Rodriguez at all - and Rourke's personally been trying to spin it that 'frenemy' Sean Penn is the one who rescued him from obscurity by putting him in THE PLEDGE eight fucking years ago.

Circumvent,
because it's Rodriguez and while he's admired for his technical expertise, his artistic side is one left to be desired. The less said for any credit, the better.

comment #35

PCP_Patriots says ...

I'm still surprised he didn't have the rebirth a few years back after he did that Damon/Devito film of Grisham's novel by Coppola - The Rainmaker. He was great then and that was after his "youthful days"

comment #36

Gaydos says ...

Even though Kat was not one of the four actors we touted in our TEN ACTORS TO WATCH list in Variety last October who wound up with Oscar noms this year, she's that good and I hope to see her get the shot to prove it and join them.

http://entertainment.uk.msn.com/movies/features/article.aspx?cp-documentid=10550151

comment #37

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

That was a nice post, Lex (ENTHUSIASTIC as always); I pretty much agree with everything you say, bro.

Rourke is amazing in The Wrestler, but I also want to join the ranks of people who are a bit puzzled by all this "comeback" talk. He's been good in quite a few projects this decade, even if the movies themselves weren't always top-notch.

I pretty much expect this trend to continue this year; he's about the only reason I'm interested in The Informers and Killshot. The latter of which is a part tailor-made for him...it's just a shame a more interesting filmmaker wasn't adapting Leonard (I remember far enough back when Tarantino was actually said to be eyeing it -- or a Brosnan Bond -- as his follow-up to PF).

Speaking of Tarantino, I hope the damage between Rourke and QT over Death Proof isn't so irreconcilable that they won't ever work together. Ultimately, I feel that particular situation worked itself out right (Russell gave a great performance and went in a direction that probably only he would have gone with it), but one only needs to check out his monologue in Body Heat to imagine just how hard he would tear up the celluloid delivering one of those scathing, badass, five-minute soliloquies penned by Quentin.

Not that he really writes them like he used to. But still.

comment #38

Gordon27 says ...

"Was a volunteer PA at AFI in 88-89; only a handful of first-year students I was around suffered from entitlement issues."

I was also including actors who can't get paying work for a variety of reasons, so they take work in student films. They'll fight you almost as hard as Christian Bale, but with substantially less talent to back it up.

Glad to hear Pfister is a good guy.

comment #39

BurmaShave says ...

Looking over his IMDb, Rourke has actually had a very good decade. Besides STORMBREAKER (seen it unfortunately, I hate having little nephews sometimes) and THEY CRAWL (?), he's had a solid run, as far as his work in the projects. THE PLEDGE, SPUN, ONCE UPON A TIME IN MEXICO, MAN ON FIRE, SIN CITY, DOMINO... I mean compare him to someone like Ray Winstone, his career is basically where it should be. I mean it's just the fallen angel stuff and his lost decade, but he's been back for awhile. It would be classy to give props to Rodriguez and Tony Scott if he wins the Oscar.

comment #40

BurmaShave says ...

And yeah I am way too into Mickey Rourke. I basically just want him to be my dad.

comment #41

Gordon27 says ...

Burma - I think the reason this is a "comeback" is because he didn't play a significant role in any of those films; does he have three scenes in any one of them? [Sin City is the exception, and even there, he's the lead in one of three stories, so his screentime maxes out around 45 minutes or so.] This movie would, in theory, be his return to leading man status.

comment #42

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