comment #1

actionman says ...

I miss seeing J.T. Walsh as the heavy.

comment #2

lazespud says ...

It's interesting to watch all of the extra's on the new Slingblade DVD. The original short was barely mentioned and Hickenlooper was mentioned at all...

Given the amount of stuff put on the DVD, it would have seemed appropriate to include the original short, but no go...

comment #3

EdHavens says ...

I miss seeing J.T. Walsh, period.

As for Thronton, it's nice to know there is still at least one crazy motherfucker who doesn't give a shit about doing things to "protect his career" out there.

Now, I anxiously await Hickenlooper to post one of his patented dissertations in response to this article.

comment #4

Breedlove says ...

Billy Bob may very while be psycho or a dickhead or whatever, but it must be said: am I the only one who absolutely loves watching this guy on screen? He has tailed off a bit, but he had a little run there for a couple of years with 'The Man Who Wasn't There,' 'Monster's Ball,' 'Intolerable Cruelty,' 'Bad Santa,' and 'Friday Night Lights' where he became one of my favorite actors. Five awesome movies that he kicked ass in. Personality aside I find this guy really fun and interesting to watch on screen and at least for a while there it seemed like he had great taste in projects. I hope this little slump he's in right now is only temporary.

comment #5

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

You're not alone, Breed.

He is a goddamn talented actor. That list you have is good and proof of quite an impressive run, but in doing so you omit one of my favorite performances -- possibly the definitive BBT performance -- of his (also a damn fine film, to boot): A Simple Plan.

comment #6

hunterd says ...

I bought this short film on a dvd with a booklet and a bunch of special features from the dollar bin at a friggin K-Mart a year or 2 ago.

Trufax.

comment #7

Mark says ...

"Beavers and Ducks!" My favorite BBT moment. (And I'm clueless to Oregon interstate rivalries.)

comment #8

actionman says ...

A Simple Plan is perfect filmmaking/storytelling and still the best thing that Raimi has done (besides Army of Darkness, of course).

And yeah, Bandits is a little underrated. No?

comment #9

Mark says ...

I'm more sure that ASP is Elfman's best score than I am that it is Raimi's best work.

I'm careful not to say that someone's best work occurs when they overextend to restrain every impulse that made them successful. Because when this happens, their uniqueness thus becomes irrelevant.

I feel like dozens of filmmakers could have delivered ASP, while no one could have done Spider Man 2 as well. (Similarly, no one could have done Liar Liar as well, but everyone says Carrey's best work is in ESOTSM, which endless people could've matched IMO.)

comment #10

Breedlove says ...

I've been meaning to watch 'Bandits' a second time for years...can't remember it too well.

'A Simple Plan' is indeed a fine movie and performance.

comment #11

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

Hayul naw -- no way do I take Spider Man 2 over ASP.

On the other hand, I could see one making a convincing argument for Evil Dead (or Evil Dead 2, for that matter...).

For me, there's just a surprising, simple maturity to ASP that isn't evident in any of his other work, and I dig it. A lot.

comment #12

Mark says ...

"no way do I take Spider Man 2 over ASP"

Never said that SM2 is better than ASP. Someone's best work doesn't necessarily correlate with their best movie, and this includes directors.

comment #13

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

Uhhh, I read that over about 4 times, Mark. Can't say I really follow you.

I've heard of the difference between best movie and favorite movie, but best movie and best work? I guess that's really a semantics game I'm not equipped to play other than to say while Cameron Crowe's best movie may (or may not) be Almost Famous, his best work may (or may not) be the book Fast Times at Ridgemont High.

comment #14

Ghost072 says ...

Haven't seen the DVD for either film, but I'd be interested to hear what differences BBT and Hickenlooper had that caused the rift. I enjoyed the short, which is basically just the beginning of Sling Blade, but I loved what came after in the full film and the music choices, as well.

George, if you are reading this, what different direction would you have taken the story or tone, or was it something other than that?

comment #15

Mark says ...

George Cloony - Best work= Solaris Best Movie=Three Kings

Michael Nyman - Best work=Gattaca Best movie= The Piano

Even if you don't agree w/ these choices, you can understand the notion. Well, I'm suggesting that it also applies to directors. Or are you of the school that the director should be held responsible for every aspect of filmmaking and receive all the praise and criticism for the final product?

Regarding ASP, I'm saying that with the same score, script, and actors, Curtis Hanson e.g. could have delivered the exact same movie. Raimi worked hard to remove his signature from the film, so I'm careful to suggest it's his best work. It's a bit of an insult to him to say that the lack of his fingerprints, and delivery of a movie that could have been easily replicated by any competant peer, is his best work.

comment #16

Baron Munchausen-by-Proxy says ...

"The play, I'm told, never actually existed, and was instead a one-man show in which the Karl character was one among many many characters. The reality is that the feature was based on the HIckenlooper's short. I've understood that to be the case for years, and I don't see how it's disputable."

This situation's actually extremely easy to figure out, without needing to "dispute" anything.

BBT did not need to have performed his play - at any time - before an audience in order to register it for copyright or guild registration. And he could have easily written many drafts of it - again, unperformed anywhere - since the draft he registered. That doesn't lessen BBT's claim on the property, or, therefore, his credit.

Karl Childers - even if under a different 'predecessor' name for the character - could have been one of thousands of distinct characters in a multi-character one-man performance-art piece by BBT. Guess what? That *still* doesn't weaken his claim on the character any further.

The "reality" is that the ultimate intellectual property source of Hick's short - and therefore BBT's feature as well - was BBT's created property.

If Hick made any contributions to the short's script, they were minor elements which are performed as part of his 'directorial duties'. (This is standard in all director's agreements.) Any such changes automatically become the intellectual property of the owner of the script. However, this isn't an automatic 'raw deal' for the director by any measure. If the director feels that they made so many material changes to the script that they deserve a writing credit, the have the uncontestable right to file for a hearing by the Writer's Guild, at a point after editing and before final credits are locked on the film.

Their 'falling out' happened well before final WGA arbitration would have been called for. I have no actual knowledge whether an arbitration was every requested by Hick, or he requested one and it didn't merit a hearing, or he got a hearing and lost. Hearings and results - unless you follow the project and take note of a new person being credited, something that wasn't de riguer as it is in these film-blogging times of ours - are usually highly confidential.

But that doesn't matter. Any way you slice it, Hick's claims were/are without any merit. Either he realized himself that he didn't make the threshold contributions to the script and didn't file for one, or he lost his arbitration. But, from griping to enough insiders at the time, he's realized much mileage out of the whispered rumors that Wells finds "irrefutable". What is really irrefutable is the career track-record *since* "Sling Blade".

Just from a glance at their film bios since then... Hick fails by a country mile.

comment #17

Gordon27 says ...

You should probably know what "Hick" has actually claimed before you assume his claims are without merit, since none of what you're saying has anything to do with what "Hick" has said.

comment #18

Hickenlooper says ...

I saw the feature after it's release and I enjoyed it. It was different than the feature Billy Bob and I discussed making. The film I wanted to make would have been slightly darker in tone. I thought the Karl Billy Bob portrayed in the feature was a little softer and more audience friendly. Our original plan was to use the short as the first act of the feature and then once Karl leaves the sanitarium the film pays homage to Wizard of Oz and slowly fades to color, only to return to black and white at the end. There is no question that Billy Bob is a great talent however his abusive temperment made him very difficult to deal with. I ultimately walked away from the film and was not "passed over" as the Harvey Weinstein spin machine tried to suggest. My contribution was primarily to the tone and many of the supporting characters in the short. With respect to the feature, Billy Bob and I developed it to some length. At the time Billy Bob's idea was to have Karl released and then meet up with a woman who was a third degree burn victim. I felt this was too heavy handed and suggested borrowing from Frankenstein, and that Karl should develop a relationship with a young boy. After seeing the film it appears to me he used my suggestion. Billy Bob did a great job with the feature on his own and he deserves the career he has had. At the same time he has left a wake of very distraught folks who have had to deal with him intimately. I don't think it's his intention. He has a very sweet, charming side to him, but there clearly is some kind of disorder there that he is very aware of. That's really all I have to say about it. I think the short is worth another look. Thanks Jeff for recognizing it. GH

comment #19

Baron Munchausen-by-Proxy says ...

So sorry, Gordon27, but I am quite familiar with Hickenlooper's (sorry if my abbrev. offended you) version versus BBT's (that's 'Billy Bob Thornton' to you) version versus Harvey's version of the events *at the time they occurred*. You know, rather that what the years of spin have developed.

But carry on.

comment #20

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

Thanks for the explanation, Mark...I think I can better see where you're coming from, there, esp. on the Clooney example (of course, I'd probably go with Syriana and From Dusk Till Dawn, but that's irrelevant).

I guess I do sort of subscribe to the auteur theory, so I don't think ASP would be nearly the same classic film under Hanson's direction (I also find him to be terribly overrated, but again that's irrelevant). I'd say it was less about Raimi removing his fingerprints, and more about him distilling his trademark fantastical horror aesthetic into a realistic setting with believable characters. Obviously, the novel, script, actors, music, etc. were important in shaping this, too. To suggest otherwise would be foolish. But as far as anyone else directing it as well? I have my serious doubts. The Coen Brothers probably could have, but would they? They had recently made Fargo, so I have my doubts.

As someone who I assume doesn't subscribe to the auteur theory, I am a little surprised to see you have separate lists for a composer. That strikes me as one of the aspects of the filmmaking process that seems most reliant on an individual's decisions and imagination.

So, while I wouldn't argue at all that Gattaca is his best score, I would question what makes you think that any of his peers could equal his work on The Piano -- or even that (unlikely as it seems) a different composer wouldn't be so inspired by the material and top his take on Gattaca.

I don't know. It all just seems like an awful lot of personal extrapolation for processes that already involve thousands, if not millions, of decisions to reach the final print you see onscreen. I think I'll just stick with my "favorites" and "bests."

comment #21

Mark says ...

I didn't mean to imply that anyone could have equally scored The Piano. Just trying to illustrate the concept of best work vs. best movie.

I think that a great classic score is an apt example of how to bump up a B+ movie to a solid A. (See Rocky, Crimson Tide, Crouching Tiger, etc.) Maybe this helps show how one's overall impression of a film relies on variables often outside of the director's direct control.

comment #22

astrophore says ...

Good to see Mr. Hickenlooper provide his insight.

I'll always be grateful to him for bringing a version of The Big Brass Ring to life.

comment #23

Gordon27 says ...

"So sorry, Gordon27, but I am quite familiar with Hickenlooper's (sorry if my abbrev. offended you) version versus BBT's (that's 'Billy Bob Thornton' to you) version versus Harvey's version of the events *at the time they occurred*."

Then your haughty attitude is even more strange, because it appears to be entirely based on things Hickenlooper never claimed, and still doesn't. For instance, he has never claimed script credit, and yet you make the huge leap that all of his ire is based on going to arbitration and losing.

comment #24

Gordon27 says ...

You're also strangely uninformed about the writing process for somebody so quick to bring up arbitration. For instance:

"Karl Childers - even if under a different 'predecessor' name for the character - Guess what? That *still* doesn't weaken his claim on the character any further."

The truth is that, if he created the character in one forum, and then Hickenlooper changed the name for the short, Hickenlooper actually *would* have some claim on the character. That's a very big point of contention; a writer can change a character's name in a script and get a lot of credit for "re-writing", while if a writer chooses not to change the names, previous writers can claim credit [see the fight over 'Fear and Loathing' for instance].

You're also wrong about the nature of adaptation; things actually *do* need to be presented to the public, that's why 'Memento' was an original screenplay and not an adapted one. [The rules have changed since 'Casablanca'.]

It's fine to insist that you know what you're talking about, but you sure don't sound like you do.

comment #25

Child Pro Tech says ...

This web site is really a walk through for all.The Quick News Update | Book Teraget Quick News | Book The Quick News | Social The Quick News | Buku The Quick News | Links The Quick News | Post The Quick News | Submit The Quick News | Child Pro Tech | Alpha The Quick News | Beta The Quick News | Gamma The Quick News | Delta The Quick News | Epsilon The Quick News | Zeta The Quick News | Eta The Quick News | All The Quick News | Theta The Quick News | Iota The Quick News | Kappa The Quick News | Lambda The Quick News

comment #26

Landari says ...

There is noticeably a bundle to know about this I assume you made certain nice points in features also Web Star Landari Socail Submit Buku Links Post

comment #27

yuranet says ...

Exactly that you said almost same with my statements, this is great answer from you articles commonwealth netbank To do this stage like you tell from this post, I think is very easy after reading a post from this page netbank.