Under These Terms

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I refuse to illegally download films for any reason. It just seems sacrilegious. On top of which I can't abide watching films on my desktop or laptop. Not visually satisfying, and certainly not after banging away at the column all damn day. I guess I''ve become spoiled by watching films on a 42" plasma so it's that way or the highway. (Unless you're talking a 52" LCD, which I now wish I'd sprung for.)

When the option to download Bluray-or-better quality movies from an Apple TV-like box becomes widespread and affordable, maybe. As long as extras options (commentary, making-of docs) are also offered.

But honestly? If I could easily download my favorite missing films now (Betrayal , The Outfit, Play It As It Lays, etc.) from a pirate site, I might conceivably change my tune. That is, as far as these particular titles are concerned. Because they're not obtainable any other way. Not from Warner Archives or any other site along these lines. Unless I'm missing something.

And we all know where that could lead. For "once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing," wrote Thomas de Quincey, "and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." I could go there, in short, despite my general opposition. The thin end of the wedge.

Which is why I feel at least a measure of sympathy for Farhad Manjoo's 4.17 Slate piece on illegal downloading, called "My Mythical Online Rental Service for Movies -- Why Hollywood is so slow to catch up on offering all of its movies and shows online."

"I would gladly pay a hefty monthly fee for [a Pirate Bay-like] service," he wrote, "if someone would take my money. In reality, I pay nothing because no company sells such a plan. Instead I've been getting my programming from the friendly BitTorrent peer-to-peer network. Pirates aren't popular these days, but let's give them this -- they know how to put together a killer on-demand entertainment system.

"I sometimes feel bad about my plundering ways. Like many scofflaws, though, I blame the system. I wouldn't have to steal if Hollywood would only give me a decent online movie-streaming service.

"In my dreams, here's what it would look like: a site that offers a huge selection -- 50,000 or more titles to choose from, with lots of Hollywood new releases, indies, and a smorgasbord of old films and TV shows. (By comparison, Netflix says it offers more than 100,000 titles.)

"And don't gum it up with restrictions, like a requirement that I watch a certain movie within a specified time after choosing it. The only reasonable limit might be to force me to stream the movies so that I won't be able to save the flicks to my computer. Beyond that, charge me a monthly fee and let me watch whatever I want, whenever I want, as often as I want."

Dusk<< previous | next >>Closely Cropped

Posted by Jeffrey Wells on April 20, 2009 at 7:49 AM

comment #1

Dazza says ...

If I could easily download my favorite missing films now (Betrayal , The Outfit, Play It As It Lays, etc.) from a pirate site, I might conceivably change my tune. That is, as far as these particular titles are concerned. Because they're not obtainable any other way.

That's it in a nutshell really. You're in a job where you're able to easily feed your passion. You aren't just able to see the latest movies when released, you're able to see a lot of these films before their release date.

But imagine you couldn't get to screenings. Imagine you were in a country that only got No Country For Old Men AFTER the Oscars. Would you, being a huge film geek, be patient to wait while the rest of the film community absorbs and discusses that film and others like it?

It's easy to say you're above it when you're in such a privileged position.

Posted by Dazza at April 20, 2009 9:15 AM

comment #2

BurmaShave says ...

"It's such a sadness that you think you've seen a film on your fucking telephone..."

Posted by BurmaShave at April 20, 2009 9:26 AM

comment #3

JD says ...

I've been using torrents for years to watch un-seeable movies. For example, this is how I saw those epic Adam Curtis docs and the unreleased MC5 doc from a few years back.

By the way Jeff, what's stopping you from burning downloads to DVD? It's pretty simple. Better yet, if you get a PS3, you can send the files through your modem with Vuze... and lose nothing in picture quality.

Posted by JD at April 20, 2009 9:27 AM

comment #4

Roger Sweets (gnosis) says ...

I wouldn't say I'm above it - there's too many things I'm below - but I won't do it (or songs) for any reason - like Jeff said in his first sentence, though he gave reasons in sentences 6 and 9.

Don't much care about the big guys you're stealing from, but I figure there's a lot of little folks like me(especially with the smaller films) that get hurt by it. Plus what is worse is that some of the illegal download sites make money from linked ads and such off of other people's sweat. Not cool.

Of course, that may mean that movies are not really my passion -

Posted by Roger Sweets (gnosis) at April 20, 2009 9:33 AM

comment #5

Ryansi51 says ...

Anybody seen the WATCHMEN-esque short that i guess is an ad for Philips' new tv? pretty cool.

Posted by Ryansi51 at April 20, 2009 9:42 AM

comment #6

actionman says ...

Where does one find the link, Ryansi51?

Posted by actionman at April 20, 2009 9:46 AM

comment #7

Sabina E says ...

oh, god, what a little bitch. Manjoo should just quit whining and just sign up for Netflix already, they have a LOT of good films on Instant Watch.

I don't illegally download movies on my laptop because I am paranoid about viruses and worms. I hate using up the disk space (RAM? I'm not sure) on my laptop, I like to keep it clear. I don't want my laptop to crash from having too many files, like it has happened to my friends who had too many movies and songs (along with porn) on their PCs.

Posted by Sabina E at April 20, 2009 9:47 AM

comment #8

Nick says ...

I agree completely with the Slate piece. Everyday that passes without the big media companies working on something like this is wasted money on their part.

Those in the entertainment industry are in a different category though. I saw 95% of this past Oscar season's movies at screenings and on screeners. I missed the Changeling screenings, didn't have a screener, and then missed it in the theatre. I wasn't crazy to see it, but I was mildly interested. When it first came to dvd it was hard to get via Netflix. I had a free evening, so I downloaded it in about an hour, and streamed it to my tv. I had no moral problem doing this.

However, what should I have done in this situation? Get in the car and go to Blockbuster? When they don't have it in stock either. Rent it from overpriced Apple?

These are not good 21st century options.

Posted by Nick at April 20, 2009 9:49 AM

comment #9

erniesouchak says ...

A friend of mine sprung for Apple TV and downloaded season 2 of "Mad Men" from iTunes and streamed it to a 52" HDTV. Picture quality was inferior to that of standard-def DVD of "Mad Men" season 1.

Posted by erniesouchak at April 20, 2009 9:50 AM

comment #10

Chicago48 says ...

Mark Cuban as been advocating all types of media outlets for newly released movies, and I agree. You should be able to see movies on the big screen (first release), DVD, online, pay per view, however....I watch and pay for movies from Blockbuster.com and AOL.com on my computer. Not the best but at least I can catchup with movies I missed. I saw Frozen River last week, very good -- not great -- movie. But I wanted to see what Melissa Leo did in the movie.

Posted by Chicago48 at April 20, 2009 10:10 AM

comment #11

nightheat says ...

its definitely a generation gap. I think that very few people below the age of 30 have any qualms about downloading movies for free or even DVD duplicating which is very very simple.

Posted by nightheat at April 20, 2009 10:22 AM

comment #12

BoshBarnetWonkyDonkey says ...

Simultaneous worldwide release dates would really put a stop to a lot of piracy. If they beamed the images directly to the cinemas from satellites or some shit rather than relying on old reels of film, I'm sure this could become a reality. Then you won't have teens in Europe downloading blockbusters because otherwise they'd have to wait 6 months to see it at the cinema.

Dazza is right - if you're hyping up a film online and marketing it as a must-see, it's only going to encourage people to download it if they know it's available and yet they have to wait months to see it in their own country.

Posted by BoshBarnetWonkyDonkey at April 20, 2009 10:24 AM

comment #13

Rich S. says ...

The problem is that too much of the studios' and record companies' business model is based on the "bottleneck" principle. Their one trump card in the past was that they could withhold distribution of product to increase demand, and, accordingly, price.

The problem is, without the bottleneck, supply becomes almost unlimited and the price plummets, in this case to at or near zero. And if the studio isn't getting paid, it can't use that money to pay for stars and special effects.

But the studios and record companies abused the bottleneck for so long that now people feel like this is payback. How long did the record companies maintain the price point of CDs at $16, even though they quickly became much cheaper to produce than LPs or tapes?

Eventually, the studios will move to a model where only the very biggest "event" pictures will play exclusively in theaters. Everything else will be released in multiple formats at the same time. I think that's about the only way to keep piracy from growing even greater.

Posted by Rich S. at April 20, 2009 10:38 AM

comment #14

Ryansi51 says ...

here you go actionman...

http://filmdrunk.uproxx.com/2009/04/carousel-philips-adam-berg

Posted by Ryansi51 at April 20, 2009 10:49 AM

comment #15

actionman says ...

thanks, Ryansi51! I'm always on the lookout for a great commercial. I will have to check it out after work as my video player here at the office is screwed up.

Posted by actionman at April 20, 2009 10:52 AM

comment #16

corey3rd says ...

I'd like it if the water company could give me a tap that gives me soft serve ice cream.

Manjoo doesn't seem to understand that this is an industry that went to major extremes to protect their films from being owned by the public. They went after Roddy McDowall.

Things will get transfered and put online eventually, but odds are that 99% of the audience will only ever care to watch 1% of the films. At least 25% of the films will have more people watching them as part of the transfer and quality control than paying customers.

Also the internet can't handle the load of this dream world. Cable companies want to charge for bandwidth - almost like the good old days when AOL could charge by the minute. Remember that?

The download world still is a good place to find films that are tied up in nasty rights issues with nobody budging.

Posted by corey3rd at April 20, 2009 11:09 AM

comment #17

berkguru says ...

The Netflix movie player on my 20" computer monitor is pretty sweet. Watching movies in my home office during work - nothing like a little Vision Quest to help pass the day.

The Netflix partnership with TiVo for instant downloads is great too - cant imagine there will even be DVD/Blue-Ray players in 5 years.

Posted by berkguru at April 20, 2009 11:23 AM

comment #18

dggunz says ...

Jeff - check out the Roku player for Netflix. Not a lot of content yet, but it feels like the future...

Posted by dggunz at April 20, 2009 11:27 AM

comment #19

Deathtongue_Groupie says ...

Meanwhile, while the pissing contest goes on in a right's fight, money is being left on the table.

Someone should offer a service to act as neutral third party to handle the home video release of contested films. A conservatorship to hold the money in escrow while giving approval to associated costs. It's really terrible business, because these films that haven't ever been available missed VHS, laserdisc, DVD and now Bluray money while the parties argued.

Posted by Deathtongue_Groupie at April 20, 2009 11:27 AM

comment #20

corey3rd says ...

Deathtongue - what happens if after the price of the digital transfer and re-upping certain rights, the movie doesn't get enough hits to pay back these costs? Who gets stuck with the bill? You're under the simple assumption that every movie every made will make a fortune in this new universe.

Or will your conservatorship organization be able to take from the profits of the producers of films that can make a profit and pass it on to the charity children?

Posted by corey3rd at April 20, 2009 11:41 AM

comment #21

AndrewOwens says ...

Wrote a whole long comment on this topic before remembering that I'm using my real name as a handle on this site.

No, I've never downloaded an impossible to find film, like Sorcerer or The Keep. No sir.

(Whistles)

Posted by AndrewOwens at April 20, 2009 11:58 AM

comment #22

Kanye West says ...

(Whistling along with AndrewOwens about numerous titles listed on the left - including Play it as it Lays, Betrayal and The Outfit - VHS or TV rips of those ultra-raretites, but nonetheless...)

Posted by Kanye West at April 20, 2009 1:17 PM

comment #23

Moises Chiullan says ...

Folks, a major break in the piracy policing world: the above-commenting superstar, Kanye West, has admitted to illegal downloading. We've determined rap music does corrupt.

Posted by Moises Chiullan at April 20, 2009 1:50 PM

comment #24

John Y says ...

Why are you itching for a LCD over a plasma? All videophiles know that plasmas are the best way to watch movies at home (due to their dark blacks, wide viewing angles, and ability to handle motion better than LCDs). For me, 50" plasma is the sweet spot... I'm thinking of picking up the new Panasonic G10 set.

Posted by John Y at April 20, 2009 1:59 PM

comment #25

actionman says ...

Ryansi51:

My head just exploded.

Thanks so much for the link...unfuckingreal.

Posted by actionman at April 20, 2009 2:18 PM

comment #26

Ryansi51 says ...

pretty cool huh? they cut it short of mentioning Philips, but it would be awesome if they just pulled out of the frame to reveal the tv, and then a tag about how much detail there is in the new Philips.

Posted by Ryansi51 at April 20, 2009 3:29 PM

comment #27

Deathtongue_Groupie says ...

Corey3rd - the simple assumption is bemusedly in your take on what I said. Nowhere in my post does the word "download" even appear, much less any suggestion that I assumed ANYTHING regarding profits from said service. You assumed that my jumping off point of rights issues from your post meant that anything discussed in my post must relate to everything in yours.

I was just pointing out that someone should have suggested something like this a long time ago (conservatorship) in order to protect the asset while the ownership was settled. Both parties agree to a 50/50 split of costs and whomever ends up with them must immediately repay these costs barring appeals.

I doubt that for most of the films currently clamored that are unavailable would make the majority of their money from downloads in the first place - the cinephiles doing the clamoring will want high quality copies of their own without having to burn themselves.

Posted by Deathtongue_Groupie at April 20, 2009 4:22 PM

comment #28

Freddie Mertz says ...

You can download 1080p quality files (generally they are .MKV files), and watch them on any screen you like using one of the many available media extenders (Popcorn Hour is a good choice).

Posted by Freddie Mertz at April 20, 2009 4:31 PM

comment #29

corey3rd says ...

The thing is that if the film release proves to be a disaster with way too much money owed on the project than collected, you might see the court battle change over to the point where neither side will want control of the project and the whole project ending in a bankruptcy hearing.

I remember a producer who had some odd involvement with Escape from New York. He was furious when they remade it with the Los Angeles location. He was planning to sue them until the film tanked on opening weekend. Then he just decided it wasn't worth the legal fees to claim a piece of a complete dog.

Posted by corey3rd at April 20, 2009 5:12 PM

comment #30

ZayTonday says ...

I don't know about you guys, but I download 720p TV shows and stream them to my 52" HDTV via my PlayStation 3 and it's just like watching the HD broadcast.

Posted by ZayTonday at April 20, 2009 6:18 PM

comment #31

Don Draper says ...

"But honestly? If I could easily download my favorite missing films now (Betrayal , The Outfit, Play It As It Lays, etc.) from a pirate site, I might conceivably change my tune."

Within 5 minutes of reading this, I found all three of your films. Think I might watch The Outfit now.

Posted by Don Draper at April 20, 2009 9:59 PM

comment #32

lazespud says ...

Like Jeff, I hate the idea of downloading films. But I will confess to having downloaded a couple. Specifically, I recently downloaded a certain 40 million dollar German movie that was nominated for an oscar, fer chrissake, and has been released all around the world, yet STILL hasn't gotten a US release. It hit DVD in the UK today.

BTW Jeff, I never watch them on my computer; I watch them on my big screen from my computer via the Xbox. They look fantastic.

And I think the Netflix service I get through my Xbox is pretty close to the golden jukebox, if only they'd get more rights to content. Every time I think I might cancel, they dribble out another good movie and I stick around (this week it was Tell No One, Let the Right one In, and standard operating procedure).

Posted by lazespud at April 21, 2009 1:34 AM

comment #33

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comment #35

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