comment #1

raygo says ...

I dunno ... I seem to recall plenty of B&W porn from college. It's not like we're evaluating porn for its cinematography, not that it isn't important, but seriously, that's an off-the-wall observation. But this is odd day, after all.

comment #2

JChasse says ...

Porn fans like simple pleasures, like butter in their ass and lollipops in their mouth. That's just them. That's just something that they enjoy.

comment #3

actionman says ...

"donkey ramming"

LOVE IT

And JChasse -- nice quote. video tape vs. film. where do you stand?

comment #4

JChasse says ...

You come into my house, my party, to tell me about the future? That the future is tape, videotape, and not film? That it's amateurs and not professionals? I'm a filmmaker, which is why I will NEVER make a movie on tape. (God, I love IMDB for stuff like this)

comment #5

punchdog says ...

The transition from film to video did this. I.e. see Boogie Nights.

As for your point, Jeff, about a good portion of people who watch today's porn not being sophisticated? I'm pretty sure those same people who were watching "sophisticated" 70s porn films are watching porn today. Their options have just expanded a millionfold at the click of a mouse. That, or they're afraid that their wife will catch them jerking off at 2 am in front of the computer...

comment #6

Sabina E says ...

People watch porn to jack off, to cum, and to feel good. Porn isn't there for "art."

now, if people want to look at "sexy, artsy porn," well, there's always erotica. Although I've never seen an erotica film shot in B/W (or I can't recall any right now).

comment #7

JCEFalconi says ...

You take a huge leap thinking the producers of porn nowadays have any sort of handle on their audience, that they research or look into it in any sort of way. A porn focus group? porn screenings? They do what most people do, they think everyone is like them.

Porn looks cheap and tacky, because the people that make it are usually cheap and tacky. Why would anyone with any sort of cinematic talent willingly put him or herself into a ghetto?

Also, you clearly underestimate the power an actual beautiful woman has when you think a bad set, and stitlted lines (the times I've watched porn I've definitely muted it) will get on the way of a living, breathing heterosexual male (even a non-peasant) liking it.

comment #8

actionman says ...

didn't barry sonnenfeld shoot porns before coming a feature film cinematographer?

comment #9

MilkMan says ...

Yes, he did. He first used that Raising Arizona speeding camera, across the desert, up the ladder, and into the mouth of Mrs. Arizona in a porn called Enter Seka.

comment #10

VictorLazlo says ...

Ok, this is it. This is the point where Wells has officially lost it. What kind of obtuse brain would think that only low thread count types watch porn? EVERYONE WATCHES PORN. I bet fucking Stephen Hawkings has a hidden porn folder on his PC. I Wells is the only one who doesn't. A good Anabolic feature and a wank would do him a lot of good.

There is a time for 9 and 1/2 Weeks and there is a time for Bang My Ass 15. I don't want Bang My Ass 15 cluttered with dutch angles, or black and white Conrad Hall style cinematography.

comment #11

Mike Ock says ...

Wells I'm sorry but this is your most ridiculous post yet. People watch these films to jerk off. Why on earth would anyone want to watch a black and white porno?

That's like watching a Sasha Grey film without any nude scenes...oops..

comment #12

mccool says ...

Says the guy with a permalink to fleshbot on his bread-and-butter!

comment #13

MilkMan says ...

There is nothing worse than a porn that aspires to be anything but.

comment #14

televisiontears says ...

Sadly, you're right, DeafBrown. Passion and emotion have never really been synonymous with real, filmed sex. And it's a tragedy. So much of our identity as living, breathing creatures intersects with our sexuality. It's a huge part of who we are, and we suppress it every chance we can. I won't get into the role religion has played in demonizing one of our most base human instincts. As a result, people who embrace their sexuality without a certain amount of shame are painted as freaks outside the mainstream, and even detrimental to a functioning society. And I'm not talking about sexuality in a "Helen Mirren sure looks hot in that dress, good for her" or a "Ryan Reynolds makes me wet" kind of way. I'm talking about every person's deep, human need to FUCK, and confronting the ways that it shapes our lives and our world.

I think that's why porn exists in a kind of ghetto, even if a lot of it is self-imposed. We've been taught to be ashamed of our sexuality, that it's completely separate from who we are, and so we have "legitimate film" and "porn". So now that we've put people fucking on camera in it's place outside of the mainstream, porn filmmakers (if you can even call them that) know exactly what their audience is there to see, and to be financially successful they need to show people fucking and leave the safe side of sex to the legitimate filmmakers. Because in America, it's perfectly fine to capture the visceral experience of murder, but not the visceral experience of a deep, intense orgasm.

I realize I'm really rambling here, so I apologize. This is something I feel passionate about, and it's hard to compress such a huge issue to a blog comment.

comment #15

televisiontears says ...

Also, Jeff's statement that no porn has ever been filmed in b&w is just false. Some of the earliest moving pictures were pornos.

comment #16

/3rtfu11 says ...

The scene in which this still was created from was it meant to be sexual in nature?

comment #17

actionman says ...

comment #14 is pretty brilliant if you ask me

comment #18

MilkMan says ...

Nice, Televisiontears.

comment #19

mtgilchrist says ...

Respectfully, it might be necessary to indicate whether anyone's ever INTENTIONALLY shot porn in b&w, since stag films and early porn was all without color. That said, many of the directors of the smut generation of the 1970s (Just Jaeckin, etc.) shot really beautiful films that were actually erotic, albeit in color. I would agree that the majority of porn isn't designed to serve a larger sociological or artistic purpose, but there are erotic films like the second Emmanuelle that hold up as really hot and yet really beautiful achievements. Or maybe I'm just locking in on the movies that switched on my adolescence.

comment #20

NotImpressed1Yet says ...

Anyone here see Nine Songs?

comment #21

MilkMan says ...

Yes. Don't.

comment #22

Jeffrey Wells says ...

Television Tears, wanker that he is, knows exactly what I meant. I meant no porn films since the early '70s, when they were briefly hip, have been shot in black and white.

comment #23

Gordon27 says ...

You know, I'm always a fan of MilkMan's long posts, but this thread has two short posts by him, and they're just as brilliant.

Kudos.

comment #24

televisiontears says ...

Jeff, I know what you meant. The technicality was a joke. Thanks for calling me names, though. Real fucking classy of you.

comment #25

mccool says ...

tvtears --

I don't think shame can be part of a healthy sexual attitude, but certainly restraint should be. Discretion might be a better word. Definitely reverence. A certaint amount of fear, respect, whatever you want to call it, is healthy. I can't imagine how everyone suddenly opening themselves to deep-throating and double-penetration would somehow make us a more enlightened society.

There's also the whole mystery element to sex that, once shattered, really can destroy the intimacy between two people.

comment #26

Abbey Normal says ...

I don't know, in reference to mccool at 25, what the "mystery element to sex" has to to with initmacy. I've always thought true intimacy is characterized by the LACK of mystery, that total honesty and straightforward attitudes about what works, what I like, what she likes, etc, actually fosters a sense of togetherness. In my mind, the whole aura and mystique of sex in some ways works to prevent two people from actually connecting.

comment #27

mccool says ...

mystery might be the wrong word...awe is better. Pounded it out quickly...

comment #28

televisiontears says ...

I agree, mccool, and I think reverence is the perfect word. Once you over-indulge in something as powerful as sex, it loses all meaning. I agree completely, but I think there's a fine line between that reverence and shame. We've come a long way since the 60's, and even though we're constantly bombarded with sexual images, the actual act of sex is still taboo to a lot of people. I think a lot of people bottle up that sexual energy, and that's never good Porn, as ridiculous and amateurish as most of it is, can be a healthy outlet for people when real sex with another human being is out of the question. Heck, it's even healthy for a lot of couples who want an extra spark.

But you're right, too much of a good thing makes it less of a good thing.

comment #29

televisiontears says ...

Abbey Normal makes a great point. It's definitely possible to have it both ways (no pun intended): the total openness and the reverence.

comment #30

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

Hmmm...that's a pretty good post, Abbey. I guess to bring it around full circle (jerk? heh), how much of the sense that romance has to include a "mysterious" element has been fostered (perhaps even birthed) by Hollywood films?

It may sound silly, but speaking for myself, I know when I am (pathetically) trying to bring the charm, I can't deny that a big part of the inspiration has always been the idealized behavior of cinematic couples. Of course their playful banter is carefully scripted, and the contrivances that bring them together are almost always painfully coincidentally cute, but that's never really stopped me from playing the ol' "romantic movie routine" with a gal I happen to be particularly fond of...

Good thread. Some interesting thoughts on this subject all around.

comment #31

Gordon27 says ...

I think that McCool is getting at something with what he's saying, something that gets at the difference between sports celebrities and porn stars [was that this thread or the other?]. There is some sort of mystique which is lost when you watch a person have sex with somebody [there is something that changes when you actually have sex with somebody, I agree, but that is not neccessarily a loss as there is also some gain -- unless it goes really badly, of course].

comment #32

Gordon27 says ...

You know, I assume that there are black-and-white pornos out there, but they're hard to find, because if you put "black and white porno" into Google, you just get a bunch of interracial stuff.

comment #33

dangovich says ...

Porn is vaguely depressing, in the way that anything created to make a quick buck is depressing.

comment #34

MilkMan says ...

Kind of like crack.

comment #35

Phatang! says ...

Are the dozens of black & white mainstream releases just slipping my mind right now, or is there some flawed logic in Jeff's post?

comment #36

Bob Violence says ...

Am I exempt from Jeff's comments because I only jerk off to Andrew Blake movies? Please advise

comment #37

frankbooth says ...

It's not in black and white, but here's some nicely-lit, stylish adult material for you, Wells. And there are no unsightly penises to look at!

www.ifeelmyself.com

comment #38

George Prager says ...

Actually, there is a mid90s porn film called CINESEX, starring Leena that has some black and white sequences.

comment #39

storymark says ...

This reminds me of Jeff's rant about Elizabeth Banks wearing a denim skirt for her sex scene in Zach & Miri, and his assertation that no porn would EVER be made with a woman wearing a denim skirt. I then happened to stumble across one literally the next day. Thought about sending it to Jeff, but figured he may ban me for proving him wrong.

comment #40

Bob Violence says ...

Are the dozens of black & white mainstream releases just slipping my mind right now, or is there some flawed logic in Jeff's post?

It's perfectly logical, porn can't be taken seriously until it aspires to the same lofty heights as Sin City

comment #41

eoguy says ...

People don't watch porn to be sophisiticated. The genre (if we can call it that) is structed around one motive -- getting off.

comment #42

free online games says ...

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comment #43

dd says ...

now, if people want to look at "sexy, artsy porn," well, there's always erotica. Although I've never seen an erotica film shot in B/W
(or I can't recall any right now).

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