comment #1

MikeSchaeferSF says ...

"They see the Christian faith as a kind of moral/philosophical support system for free-market determinism, objectivism, laissez-faire capitalism, and constitutionally-limited government"

Which is, needless to say, the exact opposite of what that Jesus guy was on about.

comment #2

pm123 says ...

Well put. "Slate" has an article about whether the economic disaster brought about by our own greed is putting a dent in the "Prosperity Gospel"

http://www.slate.com/id/2222495/pagenum/all/#p2

Short answer: Of course not! Believing that God wants us to materially prosper is as American as apple pie and semi-automatic firearms!

comment #3

Crow T Robot says ...

Yeah, the way contemporary conservatives try and bind Christianity to their socio-economic philosophy is the real joke.

Christianity, as a way of life, is as anti-capitalism as it gets. It's a hippie religion, started by a poor guy with long hair and sandals whose only recorded loss of temper was over people making money in the name of God.

Good piece.

comment #4

Gordie Lachance says ...

I just can't say this often enough. Anyone who buys into an "Us vs. Them" mindset is the problem.

EVERYONE in the country is looking to get something for nothing. The rich do it by exploiting tax loopholes, hiding assets offshore, trading on inside information, etc., and the poor bilk the welfare system, defraud insurance companies, deal drugs and run petty scams and cons.

The middle class, I suppose, fit somewhere in between.

There is a fundamental flaw in the human character, greed, lack of ethics, class resentment, whatever, that will never be corrected, and until we all just admit it and take steps to police ourselves better (which of course is impossible since the ones fleecing the most are the ones writing the laws) we will all be worse off for it.

But to believe, childishly and naively, that there's some Red vs Blue political ideology at the root of our problems is the biggest load of bullshit ever dumped on anyone.

comment #5

BoshBarnetWonkyDonkey says ...

That Joel Osteen is a creepy fuck.

comment #6

Mgmax, le Corbeau says ...

"capitalism -- God's chosen economic system -- is hallowed and sacrosanct because it allows for society's hungriest go-getters (i.e., the brightest entrepeneurs and most aggressive ladder-climbers) to live rich and abundant lives -- to profit handsomely from the fruit of their talent, vision, inititative and opportunism."

Man, he IS pissed about that Nikki Finke deal, isn't he.

If only we had a single-payer system for blogs, some bureaucrat would see Jeff's true worth.

comment #7

BoshBarnetWonkyDonkey says ...

Wells' ideology does not mesh with his rampant hatred of the proletariat.

comment #8

pm123 says ...

Gordie:

It's not Red vs. Blue or Us vs. Them. We're all in this together. If anything, it's America vs. the rest of the world, as America is the unique creation here. America is the birthplace of the "Prosperity Gospel," which is, of course, utterly opposed to the real Gospel. We, as Americans (although thanks to the internet, one can't say "we" on a website!) need to come to grips with our assumption that we DESERVE material prosperity, simply because we're Americans. Both Liberals and Conservatives, Democrats & Republicans all agree on this - we're Americans! We're special! We're better than the rest! We deserve more than the rest!

We didn't invent Capitalism, but we turned it into a religion, God help us!

comment #9

Ju-osh says ...

"Wells' ideology does not mesh with his rampant hatred of the proletariat."

I was thinking the exact same thing.

comment #10

jeff says ...

For them it's all about the goodies that God in His wisdom wants them to have -- about their right to live flush and get richer and to help like-minded homies do the same. This is the view that binds Ayn Rand and Joe the Plumber and Sarah Palin

Except for the minor detail that Ayn Rand was an athiest who thought that blind faith and religion were for the feeble-minded.

comment #11

bryce_david says ...

"Because they don't care about the communal reality of life on this planet."

That's because Heaven is a better place and the ultimate goal in their lives is to end up there, so this life on Earth is just temporary, therefore they all believe "who gives a shit about the environment and life on this temporary pitstop called Earth?"

comment #12

allstar397 says ...

I have a problem with people not practicing what they preach. The hypocrites who whine about capitalism and corporations while wearing Nikes and shopping for DVD's on Amazon while working part time at the Gap. Thats the biggest problem I have with Libs, especially the younger (louder) ones in my age group.

comment #13

Travis Crabtree says ...

Oooohhhhhh. I see.

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Jeffrey.

And here I was reading Barry Goldwater and William F. Buckley like a sucker.

comment #14

Jeffrey Wells says ...

"If I contradict myself then I contradict myself. I am vast; I contain multitudes." -- Walt Whitman

Yes, I don't have a lot of love or admiration for those sluggish humanoids who do the mall meander throughout the Times Square area but mainly because I see them as cushy-lifestyle alchoholics -- profligate go-alongers who are basically the 21st Century equivalent, physically and morally and lifestyle-wise, of Louis the Sixteenth. In the 18th Century only royalty had the luxury of eating fatty foods and lolling around without exercise and having all sorts of distractions and playthings to keep them from getting bored and overly listless. In the 21st Century a Louis-the-Sixteenth lifestyle is a completely routine thing for tens of millions of American middle-classers.

But there's no real philosophical conflict between seeing these obese humanoids for what they are and despising right-wing elitism and earth-plundering selfishness and favoring progressive policies that seek to nurture and show respect for the earth, and allow the millions of uninsured in this country to have a shot at a decent form of health care. One reason health costs are so exorbitant in this country is because the fat-asses tend to get sicker earlier in life and more frequently due to their fatty diets and sea-lion bodies...hello?

comment #15

KC says ...

BoshBarnet etc. is on point, and every so often a post will really veer beyond run-of-the-mill That's Our Wells! cranky old man shit into jawdroppingly nasty classism

comment #16

KC says ...

Man seriously can we stop pretending WFB was this classy, reasonable dude instead of basically a giant sack of shit who was good with a thesaurus and knew how to rock some Brooks Brothers

comment #17

Deathtongue_Groupie says ...

Gordie - funny, but every time I hear about an insurance scheme or welfare racket, there's always a group of lawyers, doctors or both who were the ones in charge.

To say that "everyone" is looking to cheat their way through life is simplistic, cynical and myopic. I think it's more accurate to say that every economic strata has individuals who will exploit others and the system for their own selfish benefit. All of us might be TEMPTED at some point in our adult lives, but the majority of us seem to abide society's rules.

comment #18

Jeffrey Wells says ...

Wells to Travis Crabtree: As you well know and if you were more honest and focused and not trying to be a fact-denying provocateur for the sake of throwing crap around, the conservatism of William F. Buckley, though racist and backward in some ways, was a far different and much more cultivated thing than the kind of free-market, God-embracing buccaneer conservatism practiced since the Reagan era, and particularly during the Dubya years. Ditto the philosophies of Barry Goldwater -- a guy who actually believed in balancing the books and who cared about the natural kingdom of the earth. By today's bullshit conservative standards Goldwater's views would be regarded as centrist to right-centrist. As Bill Maher said a week or two ago, the Democrats have become a right-center party and the Republicans have become a crazy party.

comment #19

lipranzer says ...

The irony of people who hate evolution and yet believe in social Darwinism always amazes me.

comment #20

Rich S. says ...

I've been trying for some time to figure out how all of Jeffrey's jet trips to various film festivals fit in to this egalitarian philosophy of his. Then I realized, of course, that they don't.

I know, I know. "I contain multitudes."

comment #21

Sabina E says ...

well-thought, well-written posts like this are why I enjoy reading Hollywood Elsewhere.

beautifully put, Wells.

comment #22

62Lincoln says ...

Wells: "By today's bullshit conservative standards..."

I think this would be more accurately written as 'by today's bullshit [i]Republican[/i] standards...'.

The Republican party, as Wells indirectly noted, have completely fucked the meaning of conservatism, and defined it in ways never envisioned by true conservatives. Which is another way of saying they fucked up real good.

comment #23

Travis Crabtree says ...

Well, if Bill Maher said it.....

And you're also conveniently finding people to fit into your HuffPo ideal of what conservatism is.

There are a fair percentage of Republicans who never go to church, are pro-abortion rights and rarely talk about "Christian values". Of course, incidentally, (even though it would admittedly be hard to win the Presidential nom) people in the Republican party are allowed to be pro-choice. How many pro-life Democrats are allowed to speak at their conventions or allowed to seek national office?

And historically speaking, what do you imagine JFK would think of Obama and his policies? He'd say something along the lines of "Err ah, that guy's a Democrat? Seriously? He's going to wreck the economy. Handsome devil, though. Bet he really pulls the babes. Bobby, where's my darvon?"

See "The Hurt Locker". In theaters now.

comment #24

Michael says ...

WFB had a pretty bad handicap when it came to his views on racism - his father. But he overcame those views in the latter half of his life, and his public viewpoint changed. This is beyond dispute. He was for, in general, the legalization of drugs. He was against the war in Iraq.

Please read Gary Wills profile of WFB in this month's Atlantic Monthly. It's excellent, and fair.

comment #25

adorian says ...

I was amazed during the last election to see lots of draft dodgers without lapel flag pins who would show up on Fox News and denounce Obama as being unpatriotic for not wearing a lapel flag pin.

comment #26

Deathtongue_Groupie says ...

And the winner of today's BS Straw Man Take Down Award goes to..... Rich S.

comment #27

Gordie Lachance says ...

Personally, I think the world should be for the few. I sleep a lot better at night knowing that a few guys who were on the ball enough to get into Harvard and Yale and their cronies are running things, as opposed to the knuckle dragging, illiterate, cheese-eating masses who I run into on a daily basis.

Just remember that every single person that Bernie Madoff ripped off was looking to get something for nothing. Lots of money for no work. Serves them right. With people that dumb, you don't even have to steal. They just hand it right over.

comment #28

bluetide says ...

Crabtree, Pro-life Democrats are all over the place. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is a self-described pro-lifer. Nearly every white and several African-American Democratic congressperson or senator from the south or midwest is pro-lfe. There is an organization called Democrats for Life that has a pretty strong role in the Democratic party. And staunchly pro-life Sen. Bob Casey spoke at the DNC last year, making up for what happened to his father in '92.

You are somewhat right about national officeseekers, although that applies to both parties. Democrats have some leeway on the issue, notice that Obama supported a late term abortion ban that included health exceptions for the mother and Joe Biden said during the campaign that he believed life began at conception but did not feel that he had the right to make that belief law. Compare that to the complete reversal that Mitt Romney made on the issue as he got ready to run for President. If you want evidence of a party without room for dissent on abortion, look no further than original frontrunner Rudy Giulliani's performance once GOPers started voting or the reception party insiders gave to McCain's first two choices for VP, both pro-choice (Joe Lieberman and former Penn. Gov. Tom Ridge).

The truth is that the abortion as a zero sum issue is a BS distraction for both sides. Every mainstream group believes there ought to be some limits on abortion. Even NARAL and Planned Parenthood would be against abortion based on gender or race of the child. Likewise, every mainstream group believes that abortion ought to be legal in some circumstances, like situations where the mothers' life is in danger. Acknowledging that fact, why is this issue so much more of a focal point in US politics than in other countries? I am a pro-life Democrat but I firmly believe the best approach to this issue is to actually have a reasonable debate instead of calling folks murderers.

comment #29

Travis Crabtree says ...

HELLO! (hello hello hello hello hello hello hello)

NOW HITTING FOR PEDRO BORBON, MANNY MOTA! (mota mota mota mota mota mota mota)

comment #30

Gordie Lachance says ...

Oh, and Deathtongue, you can call me cynical or myopic or any other 5 cent words you want.

At least I have my own opinions and ideas, and am not just regurgitating partisan talking points, or (worse) commenting on other peoples posts without contributing anything.

comment #31

Travis Crabtree says ...

bluetide....
sorry man, but you just kind of blew my mind with your reasoned discussion of the issues and lack of bumper-sticker vitriol.

Where was the name calling? Where was the reversion to pop stereotypes or the cartoonishly silly simplicities?

That's no way to discuss things here. Bringing your calm, rational, thought-out opinions into the fray like some fancy-pants smart-guy. What, you think you're better than us?

You didn't even mention Haliburton or come up with a funny/true fake alternative name for Fox News or accuse me of loving Sean Hannity or refer to Ann Coulter as "my girlfriend".

I don't trust you one bit.

comment #32

Mgmax, le Corbeau says ...

"Just remember that every single person that [redacted] ripped off was looking to get something for nothing. Lots of money for no work. Serves them right. With people that dumb, you don't even have to steal. They just hand it right over."

Try to think of any other names you could fill that slot with. Say, of people subsequently elected to something.

comment #33

Mgmax, le Corbeau says ...

"Well, if Bill Maher said it....."

And remember, this whole rant followed his watching a Michael Moore documentary.

I remember when I was 17 and firmly believed in the last reasonably well-put opinion I had just read somewhere, too.

comment #34

Josh Massey says ...

A proud New Yorker who is anti-capitalist has no sense of history.

comment #35

Mgmax, le Corbeau says ...

An internet entrepreneur who is anti-capitalist has no sense of history.

Or self-awareness...

comment #36

bibliotechnician says ...

A person who thinks Wells is anti-capitalist from the article above doesn't know how to read.

comment #37

Mgmax, le Corbeau says ...

Or how to watch A.I.

comment #38

Deathtongue_Groupie says ...

Gordie - Others are articulating the point I wanted to make very nicely, thank you very much. I didn't see the need to type just to see my words on the internets.

I did feel, however, like exercising my right to disagree with what you posted and fuck you very much if you have a problem with it.

comment #39

MovieBob says ...

Jeff:
"One reason health costs are so exorbitant in this country is because the fat-asses tend to get sicker earlier in life and more frequently due to their fatty diets and sea-lion bodies...hello?"

Incorrect. Health costs are exorbinate because sentimental weaklings of multiple stripes decided that because "we're all in this together" (if your a liberal) or "we're all God's children" (if your a religious so-called "conservative") people who get into medical trouble by being ignorant and/or irresponsible need to be taken care of at the (taxable) expense of others who didn't do anything wrong.

Sure, there's a place for compassion and only an idiot is against helping the environment at this point (a SMART capitalist kinda knows that you can't better yourself on a dry rock with no reasources) but there's GOT to be some room between Ebeneezer Scrooge and Karl Marx, yes?

You wanna lower health care costs? Really lower them? Here's an idea: Take away ALL government medical help in cases where the malady in question was the result of the "victim's" own ignorant or irresponsible action. No more aid for wastes of space who ate themselves into McObesity, nor for drug addicts, nor for crash-victims who didn't wear their seatbelts or helmets. If you fuck-up and it's your own damn fault, YOU should have to pay for the resulting medical needs. Could this potentially lead to a lot more idiots kicking the bucking? Probably, in which case the gene pool will probably be better off for it.

Oh, and Ayn Rand would probably reach for the nearest blunt object (or, failing that, bafflingly on-the-nose ironic metaphor) and start swinging if she were to meet Palin or Joe the Plumber. Honestly, YOU generally sound more like the good-guy in an Ayn Rand novel than any prominent Republican I came name - and I don't necessarily mean that as an insult. (I mean, geez, has anyone gone back and READ Atlas Shrugged recently? All the smart, inventive, creative/artistic types in the world fly off for neverland to let 'the rubes' run the planet and self-destruct out of spite... if that came out today, every right-wing nut in the country would decry it as a "liberal elitist power-fantasy.")

comment #40

George Prager says ...

Lamest thread ever.

comment #41

Fuzzy Dunlop says ...

Chomsky debating Buckley. I dont think Buckley did very well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYlMEVTa-PI

comment #42

DeeZee says ...

Gordie: "and the poor bilk the welfare system, defraud insurance companies, deal drugs and run petty scams and cons."

Wow, I didn't know those banks which get corporate welfare, corporations which make profits by denying health care, and Rush Limbaugh and Bernie Madoff were poor.

"and until we all just admit it and take steps to police ourselves better (which of course is impossible since the ones fleecing the most are the ones writing the laws) we will all be worse off for it."

We did take steps to police ourselves better, but the Rethugs called it socialism, and then destroyed all the post-Depression regulation which would've stopped this crisis from happening...

"I sleep a lot better at night knowing that a few guys who were on the ball enough to get into Harvard and Yale and their cronies are running things, as opposed to the knuckle dragging, illiterate, cheese-eating masses who I run into on a daily basis."

Of course, the irony of your comment is that a certain knuckle-dragging and illiterate cheese-eater only got into Yale because of his father's money and name. But why should poor geniuses get a chance at life, when well-connected dullards are better equipped for these seats? I say, "More Mike Browns and less Stephen Hawkings!"

allstar: "The hypocrites who whine about capitalism and corporations while wearing Nikes and shopping for DVD's on Amazon while working part time at the Gap."

Hey, we're not the ones who destroyed any real competition. We're just buying what we can.

Travis: "How many pro-life Democrats are allowed to speak at their conventions or allowed to seek national office?"

We got a pro-gun one in NY, actually.

"Just remember that every single person that Bernie Madoff ripped off was looking to get something for nothing. Lots of money for no work."

Actually, many of the victims were charities. But don't let facts get in the way of reality.

"Lots of money for no work. Serves them right."

Yeah, why can't they be like the people running Halliburton and Enron? Oh, wait!

Bob: "people who get into medical trouble by being ignorant and/or irresponsible need to be taken care of at the (taxable) expense of others who didn't do anything wrong."

So when is Bush going to pay us back the money for his stay in prison for a DUI?

"You wanna lower health care costs? Really lower them? Here's an idea: Take away ALL government medical help in cases where the malady in question was the result of the "victim's" own ignorant or irresponsible action. No more aid for wastes of space who ate themselves into McObesity, nor for drug addicts, nor for crash-victims who didn't wear their seatbelts or helmets."

That's nice, but the money will just go back into the pockets of the CEOs of HMOs. That's the real scam here. And frankly, I have more sympathy for people who are the victims of their own vices or screw-ups over banks which destroyed our economy.

comment #43

TATE K. says ...

Capitalism failed. Obama will ruin the country trying to save it. Deal with it.

comment #44

Natali Watson says ...

Great article!) Thank you!))
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