comment #1

SolarTheSign says ...

Yeah, okay, so maybe this girls Roller Derby thing is going to be okay, with the underwater lesbo action and all.

comment #2

Travis Crabtree says ...

"There are some things you can't un-see."

I just accidentally stumbled onto coroner pics from the Tate murders. I wish I hadn't.

40 years ago tonight in Benedict Canyon. What a fucking nightmare. I'd LOVE to come across one of those moronic punks with the Free Manson t-shirts so I could beat the stink out of him.

What were we talking about?

(p.s. - yeah, it's a really good movie and all, but maybe people here are simply tired of talking about "The Hurt Locker". Just a guess.... don't hate on me)

comment #3

BurmaShave says ...

Just restrict comments to Prager, MilkMan, and LexG. Have them be your panel. I'm serious.

comment #4

Chase Kahn says ...

I don't think I do that...do I? 90% of the time is a little overstating it. There were 60+ responses to the G.I. Joe story yesterday and almost all of the them were on-topic.

comment #5

Chase Kahn says ...

Burma, then it'd just be me and you talking about how great "Public Enemies" is...

comment #6

reedyb says ...

It will be open season for hat on bed jokes, Peter Jackson hate comments, GI Joe rants and talk of Jon Voight and his lack of brains.

comment #7

Wrecktem says ...

My boogers taste salty.

(Seriously, how are people supposed to respond? Wells has a stable readership and commenters who, for the most part, say interesting things. Why the woe-is-me?)

comment #8

Chase Kahn says ...

"Burma, then it'd just be me and you talking about how great "Public Enemies" is..."

Sorry, or rather you and me would not be around to defend "Public Enemies", that's better...

comment #9

Ray says ...

Bill Maher and Jeff have equal amounts of snobbishness and elitism, but at least Maher isn't quite as self righteous about it.

comment #10

Wiggumx says ...

This is part of having a blog that supports an active feedback section. Not everyone will always stay on topic. People have things to say that may lead the conversation astray. You could start putting the screws to DeeZee since he absolutely attempts to derail most of your blog entries by attempting to twist it into *his* blog entry.

Otherwise, you have no choice but to just go with it, really. These aren't schoolchildren, and you aren't the strict nun, ready to rap the knuckles of anyone who moves the slightest bit off-topic. You can either live with commenters that you cannot control, or you can disable commenting and see many readers disappear.

comment #11

Phatang! says ...

Dodgers are down 3-1 in the 8th.

comment #12

Josh Massey says ...

To my Braves, hell yeah.

comment #13

WJ says ...

You've been doing this for how many years?

comment #14

SpinDozer says ...

You want it lofty and pure, or even middlebrow, you either have to cull the herd on a frequent basis, make permanent bans, uh, permanent, or give readers the ability to kill the assholes themselves.

comment #15

Travis Crabtree says ...

Fake D.Z. says:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygd2PsBJ0hs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ivt9e9AGXtc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8Aagzlmknc

comment #16

larry braverman says ...

Stalinst Purge 2: The Bothering

comment #17

Travis Crabtree says ...

As long as we're hanging out on YouTube....

Here's my story.... The Travis Crabtree Story
(part of "Get to Know Your HE Posters" week)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bSQBVlrEYU

comment #18

DeeZee says ...

NSFW http://www.themoviebox.net/movies/2009/IJKLM/Kick-Ass/trailer.php
http://www.themoviebox.net/movies/2010/Iron-Man-2/trailer.php

comment #19

gustav13 says ...

Jeff, you really need to create a "hollywood elsewhere" message board.

comment #20

bondjamesbond says ...

JW, how can you post an item saying the country is stupid, agree with it, and then be surprised at the quality your comment threads in general? The phenomenon accords exactly with your assessments and expectations, doesn't it?

Or, to take another line, it might be said that the comments are in some way a reflection of the posts. I think that in tone, at least, they often are. That is, for example, a bitchy tone invites a bitchy response, even if it is not directed in the same way but backatcha, so to speak.

Following up with your consideration about evil a while ago, it seems to me that contemplating evil sets up a reflection or analog or avatar of itself in one's own mind (this is presupposing that the contemplated evil is "out there"). That avatar in one's own mind then behaves in exactly the same way as the original, with perhaps a different target. And this has been going on so long that it's impossible to tell where it originated. So after all, we are responsible for the bitchy responses to our own bitchiness.

But then, even positive posts sometimes result in negativity, like snark. But snark is basically misguided immaturity. The child practicing to be clever. There's no denying that mere cleverness is valued in certain segments of society -- like, say, SHOW BUSINESS. In that case, you're in the wrong line of work.

And so on.

comment #21

COCO says ...

Jeff, I attempt to stay on topic and address the matter at hand....many others pick at the various
bloggers......not my style.

comment #22

Travis Crabtree says ...

COCO says....

I didn't do it! Nah ah. No siree. The other bloggers, they're the ones who stray off target, not me!

(I'll email you a list of bloggers who aren't playing by the rules... but don't tell anyone that I told you)

comment #23

roquentin says ...

I think this is a totally valid and invited post. It's also a post that fucking brings out the swarm of childish bullshit that this lot thinks passes for cleverness. I bet the majority of these people, when pressed, would claim that they're posts shouldn't be taken seriously cause it's just a fucking message board, and so they're childishness is really a way to deflate how seriously people take it. "Lighten up! It's a fucking message board." But the sad fact is, these are the same kids who spend all day hammering away on the boards. It's always the most consistent posters who think their deflective "wit" deflates message board self-seriousness, but their behavior and presence speaks much louder. (Beyond this, it's rarely if ever funny, which attests to another problem - kids who think they're clever or funny but can obviously never get that validated beyond their computer.)

On some level, you will always get this sort of shit, and I wouldn't want this board to be completely free of it, because everyone needs the occasional idiot to lighten the mood (no board of this size ever is clear of this stuff anyway). But you're right that the percentage is too high. It's a swarm - you have 20 assholes vying to be head jerkoff. Is there no way to kill the hive? Practically speaking, is there anything you can do to tighten the reins?

bond: I'll give it to you that there is a level of karmic tonal backlash to the post and the posters, but it also seems that you're reflecting the "practicing to be clever". Leave the systematic metaphysics to those who know better. And so on.

comment #24

M. Candidate says ...

Eugenie Rose Chaney: Maryland is a beautiful state.

Bennett Marco: This is Delaware.

Eugenie Rose Chaney: I know, I was one of the original Chinese workmen who laid the track on this straight.
But nonetheless, Maryland is a beautiful state.
So is Ohio for that matter.

Bennett Marco: I guess so, Columbus is a tremendous football town. You in the railroad business?

Eugenie Rose Chaney: Not anymore. However if you will permit me to point out, when you ask that question, you really should say: Are you in the railroad line?

comment #25

BurmaShave says ...

Candidate, I'd swear if I didn't know those lines that you were T.Holly.

comment #26

Travis Crabtree says ...

"I think this is a totally valid and invited post. It's also a post that fucking brings out the swarm of childish bullshit that this lot thinks passes for cleverness. I bet the majority of these people, when pressed, would claim that they're posts shouldn't be taken seriously cause it's just a fucking message board, and so they're childishness is really a way to deflate how seriously people take it. "Lighten up! It's a fucking message board." But the sad fact is, these are the same kids who spend all day hammering away on the boards. It's always the most consistent posters who think their deflective "wit" deflates message board self-seriousness, but their behavior and presence speaks much louder. (Beyond this, it's rarely if ever funny, which attests to another problem - kids who think they're clever or funny but can obviously never get that validated beyond their computer.)

On some level, you will always get this sort of shit, and I wouldn't want this board to be completely free of it, because everyone needs the occasional idiot to lighten the mood (no board of this size ever is clear of this stuff anyway). But you're right that the percentage is too high. It's a swarm - you have 20 assholes vying to be head jerkoff. Is there no way to kill the hive? Practically speaking, is there anything you can do to tighten the reins?

bond: I'll give it to you that there is a level of karmic tonal backlash to the post and the posters, but it also seems that you're reflecting the "practicing to be clever". Leave the systematic metaphysics to those who know better. And so on."

Well, ladi-frickin'-da, roquentin.
You do bring up some excellent points, though. My only criticism, (and it's a small one), is that you're perhaps not quite sounding haughty and priggish enough.

I'll grant you this ain't exactly Algonquin roundtable stuff, but really. Lighten up just a bit.

However, I do promise to try to be less snarky and more erudite and staid when next we discuss the boffo box office of "G.I. Joe - Rise of the Cobra".

comment #27

Travis Crabtree says ...

...in my pants.

comment #28

Sabina E says ...

damnit, Wells, I don't care what people say. You write some of the best, most thought-provoking posts and I don't always agree with you, but you sure do make me think.

comment #29

byanyother says ...

I want to see the Tate murder photos....!

(Jeff just be grateful you have readers/commenters at all)

comment #30

byanyother says ...

By the way, I think Jeff might be slightly bothered because Ebert's site is so full of interesting, eloquent commenters and he's stuck with this lot, lol.

comment #31

roquentin says ...

I'll take the criticism (and clearly, from "in my pants", I'll take the bait as well). I realize that I sound haughty. To be sincere for a second, I'm actually working on toning that down.

But I care. Not necessarily about the box office of GI Joe, but about the conversation that springs up around it. That's why I come here every day, and that's why I fight against this board becoming a collective wank. The weird irony in all of this: while I care (and can admit it), my life would go on the same tomorrow if this board were to vanish immediately. Somehow, considering the consistency of your posting, I gather that's a reality we don't share.

comment #32

BurmaShave says ...

I second the message board idea, and in the meantime I would like to say apropos of nothing that I am much more interested in A PERFECT GETAWAY now that I know it was written and directed by David Twohy.

comment #33

ZayTonday says ...

All this complaining and Wells still hasn't banned DeeZee. How funny.

comment #34

Ulysses says ...

I second the banning of DeeZee, or DZ.

A message board would be fun.

comment #35

Chase Kahn says ...

Trust me, you don't want to be interested in "A Perfect Getaway"...

comment #36

bondjamesbond says ...

Roquentin: Who knows better about metaphysics, then? You're assuming a lot. I'll go round with you on that all day long and you won't fare well.

But I was trying to respond to Jeff's lament seriously. In the end, I think it might all come down to the fact that the nominal topic here is inherently not serious. Now, most people are very serious about things that are not serious, like friggin' baseball, for example. I do not think that anything about movies is inherently serious, although many people are very serious about them for various reasons. Even if they occasionally rise to the level of "art" I deny that even that is essentially serious.

The upshot being, it is hopeless to try to produce serious commentary about unserious subjects. Ebert, for example, is very serious about movies and has a vast repertoire of justifications for that, none of which raises the whole topic above the level of an expensive triviality.

comment #37

Mgmax, le Corbeau says ...

Because you purged the intelligent ones.

Lamest thread ever. --George Prager

comment #38

iamjoe says ...

Let's waterboard DZ.

comment #39

Mgmax, le Corbeau says ...

"It's a swarm - you have 20 assholes vying to be head jerkoff. Is there no way to kill the hive? Practically speaking, is there anything you can do to tighten the reins?"

The problem is not that they're here, but that the counterbalancing force of calm and intelligent discourse is not (mostly) anymore. And that is no one's fault but Jeff's.

Go suck a dead mule, rightwing fucktard. --SpinDozer

Halliburton mule Enron. --Deezee

My mother had an affair with a mule at Pie N Burger. --Milkman

comment #40

DeeZee says ...

Frank Langella joins Wall Street 2. http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118007075.html?categoryid=13&cs=1

comment #41

Travis Crabtree says ...

A monkey drank his own piss.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrPosTPSXxw

comment #42

Wiggumx says ...

Holy fuckballs, I agreed with Travis Crabtree for a minute! And when he said "In my pants" I knew that I had an occasionally-low-brow brother in the ranks. Bravo.

But his point is valid. This isn't the same level of sharp, lucid commentary that goes on for Roger Ebert. But, it's still valid, and I still find it interesting. Instead of calling "sour grapes," Jeff, as you seem to be doing, why don't you appreciate and revel in your success? You have me, who no one knows about or gives a fuck about, telling you how great you are. And you have countless others that have posted countless times over the years that are faithful to you. You have a very informed base that, mostly, make very informed statements in your comments section. And that's not good enough? They don't precisely fall in line with the *exact* minutiae with which you start a thread? Is that REALLY a big problem? At least you have a successful blog. At least you have people (like myself) who make a point to read you every day. At least you have people who comment. What REALLY is the big deal if they wander off-topic? It makes you seem overly self-important to be far too concerned with your readers not lock-stepping behind your ideas. Let things happen. Let it be organic. Let your comments section have its own life.

You might learn something.

comment #43

Terry McCarty says ...

SpinDozer wrote:
You want it lofty and pure, or even middlebrow, you either have to cull the herd on a frequent basis, make permanent bans, uh, permanent, or give readers the ability to kill the assholes themselves.

I'm part of a tiny herd called the "Los Angeles poetry community." The culling (but subtle culling, mind you) is going on now.

Hate to imagine that happening here.

comment #44

Pinko Punko says ...

You want people on topic, explicitly ask them what they think, don't just post stuff "this is how this IS, NO ARGUMENT" and expect people to want to have an argument.

Lex is not in the same league as Prager and MM.

Also, dive into comments more, but not just when people piss you off, also when they say stuff you like.

I know you work on this column full time, but if you want the reward from the talkbackers you have to nurture them, or at least not be outright insulting, although Massey and Crabtree deserve it.

And that is how you troll. Shots at Jeff, Lex, Massey and Crabtree, but also legitimate advice.

comment #45

Wiggumx says ...

Pinko Punko is so right. If you want to bitch when people are negative, or off-topic, then also agree when they are positive. Work an interactive, POSITIVE vibe with your talk-backers. Otherwise, you come across as if you're just whining when they don't agree.

comment #46

LexG says ...

"Lex is not in the same league as Prager and MM."

I like both of those dudes a lot, but I am in a League of My Own, pal. You wanna talk about taking blog commenting to Performance Art levels? Hop on over to The House of Poland sometime and check out how much airtime the Lexman gets, via columns, videos posted, etc.

Then take note that James Wolcott of VANITY FAIR occasionally reprints my message board rants on the VF Blog. VANITY FAIR, son. Also been quoted in LA Weekly, written about in Defamer, famous the world over for my ANIMATIONS and video reviews, quickly making a name for myself across the LAFC community.

I'm not stating any of that stuff in relation to any other poster here, but don't act like I'm some trolling flake or anonymous bother.

I put a face to the name and take this as seriously as anyone in town, and just because my "shtick" is largely comical doesn't mean I'm some AICN douche named "Ballsack69" blowing in and spouting nonsense just to be an asshole.

But to the matter at hand

I agree that Wells would do well to come into the comments more and interact in a less intimidating, contemptuous, my-way-or-the-highway tone. Poland kinda knows his regulars and interacts well... I've always gotten the vibe that Wells could take or leave 90% of us, couldn't tell his "lazarus" from his "Prager" from his "DZ" from his "DeafTrash..." unless you REALLY go the extra 80 miles to either stand out, or to be annoying enough that he drops the hammer (see, JeffMcDouche.)

In Jeff's defense, I do know what he means when you initiate a conversation you want to be about one, very mature thing, and next thing you know, the idiot brigade (self included many times, admittedly) goes off on some inside-jokey tangent.

Not much you can do about it, but I hope it doesn't mean he'll thin the herd... It's fun that this blog is so active and with so many interesting characters. Just yesterday I was checking out blogs by Anne Thompson and Kim Morgan, both smart, incisive film world people, but when you see a big fat ZERO in the comments section every time, it turns readers away, because part of the fun of this whole Net thing is the interactivity and the little feuds and banters and quirky personalities.

I'd rather read through 85 comments to pick out the 5 or 10 smart ones than just come here and see only a handful of dry affirmations that read like the nodding heads of trained seals.

comment #47

Travis Crabtree says ...

I like stuff.

comment #48

Renfield says ...

If you guys want to go and see a kick-ass new print of a film that bleeds love for the ideals of film-viewing and film-love...go and see Joe Dante's "Matinee" at The New Beverly.

The print is spotless and the film itself is movie-loving bliss.

Well worth the price if only for Goodman's V.O. of the film-going experience mixed with the steadicam POV of someone walking into a movie theater.

Dante is a true auteur who needs to be celebrated.

comment #49

Thesilenttype says ...

So, this post is directed squarely at DeeZee?

comment #50

Rich S. says ...

I could say something like, "A discussion is only as good as its moderator," but I'd probably be wrong.

comment #51

roquentin says ...

I love the juxtaposition of people claiming that Jeff a) takes himself too seriously, and b) that he should be grateful for having all of you. Anyone notice a certain dissonance?

The man writes day and night about film so that you wankers have something to do with your time. He does it for money, yes, but the majority of film writers are not as rigorous about their work ethic, and don't write with half the passion. Don't fool yourselves. Without Jeff, the constant "we're just joking" posters would struggle to find another community of like-minded "quirky personalities".

The one valid talkback around here has stated that Jeff needs to get involved more. Who knows if that would work now, but I would gather that's the primary reason this board has become what it is. Can't remember who wrote it, but good point. You should listen Jeff, cause it's the reason good boards are much less swarmed.

I'd venture your oh so funny rants and off topic commentary would seem a lot less minimal if you counted the hours in your life you've committed to it, and actually thought about it for a second. But then again, I'm just taking myself too seriously.

I'm glad people care about movies - caring about "unserious" things (whatever that means) is a fucking American pasttime, and one that is important. I wouldn't want a wooden board, nor high-brow masterbation in the place of the low brow. But this whole community of fucking jokers would not exist without Jeff being passionate about movies, and that's what makes this whole notion of "being grateful" so ludicrous. Don't kid yourselves - you guys depend on Jeff's enthusiasm, and then bark back that Jeff should be grateful.

And as for faux-insightful or pretentious commentary, don't kid yourselves about that either. Just because you couch it in the occasional monkey pees in face joke doesn't mean it isn't there beneath the surface. You guys are just as pretentious and fake erudite as the rest - it always comes out in some post that attacks your ever-so-correct sense of taste.

I'm out. Adios.

comment #52

bluefugue says ...

>Even if they occasionally rise to the level of "art" I deny that even that is essentially serious.

Art's serious. Something doesn't have to be life-and-death to be taken seriously.

comment #53

Yuval says ...

"Jeff Never Learns" is so right. There used to be a talkbacker called mgmax and he was god's gift to any blog he agreed to grace his commentary with.
Just when you thought the good times will never end and you'll always have an intelligent right-wing commentator by your side to balance the leftist nuts (using "mule" as their top insult, they're unintelligent) Jeff's boorishness forced mgmax to leave this blog in a trail of dust fairy and forced us to live in a world where the fragile balance between good and evil has been tilted to the dark side.
Alas, "Jeff Never Learns" will never know the joy of mgmax for he only appeared on this blog after the catastrophe. It is a string of bad luck if there ever was one. Imagine mgmax and "Jeff Never Learns" working together, their combined intelligence would bring forth a new golden age. "Jeff Never Learns", I ask of you, will you forgive Jeff (that never learns) and forgive us for failing you and fill the huge gap in our lives?

comment #54

Floyd Thursby says ...

"It's alive! It's alive!"--Colin Clive

comment #55

byanyother says ...

Yeah, no. It isn't just that "Jeff works hard and here you all are acting like freaks and misfits." It's -- Jeff writes thing that provoke and draw a crowd like this - how can anyone take seriously half the stuff he writes about? It's a joke, most of it, so why wouldn't the commentary also be a joke? Sure, much of it is good solid movie reporting but there is enough of the other -- can you imagine Ebert railing against the Hispanics upstairs or the fat people? Seriously. Community is community. This community isn't changing any time soon. And if you own and run a blog that depends on advertising bucks it's good to have a regular, active community no matter if they hijack posts or not.

I have read some of the best comments on any site here. There is only the occasional LexG to make it unbearable. I especially appreciated the recent political thread - that was very interesting and fun to read.

comment #56

drbob says ...

I am a big Philadelphia Phillies fan. They finally got their starting rotation in order and now all of sudden their offense is in the tank. How ironic.

comment #57

Mgmax, le Corbeau says ...

Actually, my favorite was Quintus Arrius. That dude knew his shit.

Serioiusly, you could completely ignore anything Mgmax ever posted and still a comparison of the comments section a year and a half ago and now would be cause to weep. The problem with being Che is who's left once you've executed everyone with an independent mind.

comment #58

Brendan says ...

Please don't tell me I lost Andrew Sullivan and Jeff on the same day to "Blog Burn". I don't think I would be able to handle not having the two of them in my life right now. Stay on topic people!

Dr. Bob - No worried, our Phils will be fine.

comment #59

mccool says ...

the commenters MAKE Hollywood Elsewhere so compelling. Jeff's like Pat Sajak here. Ok, that;s not fair ... maybe more like Alex Trebek. Richard Dawson, maybe. Mostly links to other people's stuff with a few comments here and there. But if not for the commenters, I would come here once per week, not five times per day. What an odd thing to bemoan the bread and butter of this site.

For all of our aspiring sleuths out there .... Jeff Never Learns IS mgmax, so those who felt sorry that he was never able to experience the maxer, well, he gets to experience him 24 hours per day.

comment #60

Mgmax, le Corbeau says ...

He is but a wraith of the Mgmax that once lived.

comment #61

Travis Crabtree says ...

I think we (or maybe just I) made roquentin cry.

comment #62

Deathtongue_Groupie says ...

The fact that DeeZee does his usual shit on this very thread speaks volumes of just how serious Jeff is about this topic.

On the other hand, some posters have put some links I was happy to have found.

There's also the fact that sometimes threads get sidetracked simply because Jeff hasn't discusses a current event that has caught everyone's attention. Another reason to have a HE message board.

comment #63

jmevans says ...

I think the comments section of this blog is the worst thing about the site. It's human nature to want to click "comment" or respond to what Jeff has posted or what others have to say here. But HE is at its best when I just read Jeff's posts and move on. Last week I read comments talking about how Ferris Bueller was a prick and how Meryl Streep is a cold actress. For every thought provoking comment on HE there are 10 or more that are a rambling mess of thoughts or absurd outlandish opinions. I'd love to see comments section removed entirely from this site. I enjoy what Jeff has to say most times, but the "community" here brings the content down. So from now on I'll just avoid reading the comments all together.

And Jeff, speaking of getting off topic. As much as I enjoy your thoughts about film here, you have a tendency to delve into your personal life quite a bit. More than I care to know. (LIke how you had an affair with a married woman. Really was a bit much). It's your site of course, write whatever you want, but you are at your best when you stick to a subject, and at your worst when the content creeps into your personal life.

comment #64

sellusWallace says ...

^ couldn't disagree less double-negatively...
Mr. Wells' personal comments, the commenters' comments, good writing even sometimes from one and all, film snobbery, strange characters, and most importantly championing Good films (which Wells nails, they almost always deserve it, and yes there are exceptions notable, but leave it alone). it's all a perfect mess here on HE. seriously, I wish Mr. Wells was more content with his creation. this site is awesome.

comment #65

ErrantElan says ...

Jeff, love your work, post when I can, try to stay on-topic out of respect for you, etc etc, but honestly, I'd say about half the things you post are EXACTLY the same damn thing, at least in theme. i think your constant readers just get bored sometimes of hearing the same rants about tubbos and flyovers and idiots - we get it. you don't like them. you think this and that about these and those.

i actually think the talkbackers sometimes bring more depth to the conversation in their commentary. basically, stop insulting your loyal readers if you're not going to ever compliment them too.

comment #66

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

"I'd rather read through 85 comments to pick out the 5 or 10 smart ones than just come here and see only a handful of dry affirmations that read like the nodding heads of trained seals."

That's exactly how I feel, Lex. I also agree with mccool -- who made a similar point -- so this has the making of a real Bizarro Day for me.

Cheers.

comment #67

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

Also, out of total respect for jmevans' dislike of the comments section of this blog, I skipped his post entirely.

comment #68

Yuval says ...

"Jeff Never Learns IS mgmax" NO..............

comment #69

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comment #70

Child Pro Tech says ...

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