comment #1

drbob says ...

Strange that the Republicans are against this. That means they think they can screw us even more.

comment #2

George Prager says ...

Eight years ago in The Onion:

I'm Such A Shitty Senator by Sen. Max Baucus

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33420

comment #3

62Lincoln says ...

Watching the Dems totally blow this leaves me aghast. This just proves (yet again) that politicians are politicians, and the only difference between Dems and Republicans is who gets the money (and one might argue, in the case of health care reform, even that difference is slight).

comment #4

Mowkeka says ...

Unless it's Bolshevism. then it's not true reform.

comment #5

Flash Gordon says ...

The problem isn't Republicans. The problem is Conservatives. Public Option just doesn't have the votes to pass either House because some Democrats may as wel have an R. in front of there names. There might be 60 Democrats in the Senate, but there sure as hell aren't 60 Liberals.

comment #6

Vernon Hardapple says ...

Unless it smells like hot garbage rotting on a city street in August for two weeks, it hasn't come from Mowkeka's ass or mouth.

comment #7

MovieBob says ...

Flash-
"The problem isn't Republicans. The problem is Conservatives. Public Option just doesn't have the votes to pass either House because some Democrats may as wel have an R. in front of there names."

It's deeper than that, though, whichever side of it you come down on: The "Blue Dog" Democrats didn't just appear out of nowhere, they were elected in otherwise-Republican-leaning states as the then-successful result of a strategic push by the DNC to get a congressional majority (during last of the Bush years) by running nominally-conservative Democrats in "conservative" states. So, y'see, if the conservative-dems weren't present, there'd just be Republicans in their seats and the votes STILL wouldn't be there.

Public Option may or may not be the best thing for "the people," but "the people" don't want it. At least, not "the people" as a voting-populace. It's sort-of tragic: Obama is probably correct that the majority of Americans support most of his left-of-center policies, but the majority of American VOTERS don't.

comment #8

Vernon Hardapple says ...

@MovieBob:

In poll after resounding poll of American voters, a majority has leaned towards the publi option, not away from it.

The Pew poll, the Anenberg Poll, The NY Times polls, The AmA poll, should I go on?

comment #9

Geoff says ...

Nate Silver at fivethirtyeight was all over this public option polling.

It turns out, if you poll it correctly, the overwhelming majority is in favor of a public option.

Most people don't know what it is. Example: Bill O'Reilly.

comment #10

Travis Crabtree says ...

Your analysis is correct, MovieBob. I doubt we agree very much politically but you're obviously a smart guy. I won't be skipping over your posts.

Health care debate aside, fact of the matter is this country tilts a bit right of center overall. That may sadden true-to-the-core liberals (and hard right conservatives, for that matter) but it is what it is. Clinton (politically) wisely veered to the center, even more so to get re-elected. The interesting thing will be to see what Obama does.

On the one hand he truly is a liberal, (CALM THE FUCK DOWN.... I didn't mean that as a pejorative), yet on the other hand he is a very smart, deft politician with a keen sense of survival. He won in '08 because of the economy, fatigue with the Republicans and the fact that he was a fresh, appealing figure who brought (here's that word) hope to a cynical population.

That won't, alone, work for him in '12. Look for him to move to the center faster than a nose-tackle.

And Mizzou is up 42 to nothing in the third quarter.

I kind of forgot what we were talking about.

comment #11

Manitoba says ...

I'm just a veteran reader in single-payer land who is watching the U.S. reform 09 debate with great interest. In the course of this,I sometimes see Canada's system being beaten up or lied about by the U.S. right. I almost threw something at my tv screen when I saw Kentucky Republican Senator Mitch McConnell claiming Canada writes off old people. Not true. I know from experience. My father will be 95 Monday and he was to go in for a minor operation later next week. To the relief of his three siblings ,he has just decided to call it off . But my point is, our system was willing and able to help him with a non life-threatening problem even at his age. When my mother spent weeks in hospital dying of breast cancer, I was so thankful our family did not have to worry about financial disaster or loophole-loving private insurance companies.Jeff, believe me, you are on the side of the angels in worrying about even the public option.

comment #12

SpinDozer says ...

@Manitoba:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXXBCFnhsUc&feature=player_embedded#t=17

comment #13

MovieBob says ...

Travis-
"That won't, alone, work for him in '12. Look for him to move to the center faster than a nose-tackle."

He won't need to move too far. All the so-called "radical" or "socialist" stuff the Tea Party kids are upset about are mostly theoretical-proposals or drastic misunderstandings, and most of them the general public has never heard of. To most of the country, Obama himself is still an entirely non-polarizing, "centrist" figure. It's his greatest political skill: The ability to appear "above" the party-vs-party fray. The down side to that, of course, is that it's (so far) prevented him from sharing that mojo with other Democrats.

Excepting the possibility of a dramatic "X-Factor" shift in the course of world events, the next few months will likely happen this way: The Democrats are going to get CLOBBERED in the midterm elections, a combination of frustrated democrats staying home and incensed republicans rushing the polls. At least one or possibly both houses will go back to republican control, which will mean Obama will be forced to compromise and/or take the middle path on almost every major legislation for the remainder of his term. As he has been, thus far, a master of the "I MEANT to do that!" political-save, he'll come out of that looking more "centrist" than ever; and in a good-enough position for 2012 (especially since the Republicans can't find a standard-bearer to save their lives. People are still talking up ROMNEY for fuck's sake...)

comment #14

DeeZee says ...

Travis: I doubt the country's that right-of-center if it was willing to take away the Republican majority in both houses. The real issue is probably that the general public has taken for granted how long it took us to recover from the Depression, and wants economic results now. As a consequence, it can't seem to make the connection between employers not being able to hire or invest because of high insurance rates, and having a public option to get that monkey off their backs. Anyway, I doubt Obama will have to worry about being "centrist", given that the opposition is nowhere near as organized or presentable as it was
in the past. He might have to depend more on his record than he would have in the last campaign, but that's a given for any candidate.

Bob: Don't get too cocky on the mid-terms. The Dems have more money and can make the case that they tried to fight for a better situation. Plus, when Iraq collapses after we leave, they can rub it in the other side's face.
While it's true there's likely to be a smaller turn-out than '08, that applies to voters of both parties. Not to mention that the Republican contenders still have to rework their PR to be able to win over disgruntled "independents".

comment #15

Travis Crabtree says ...

I see your point, DeeZee, but do you have any links to back up your statements, (or to provide any other bits of news inside or outside the world of politics)?

- Confused in Los Angeles

comment #16

bill weber says ...

Obama is no more a liberal than Bill Clinton was, except maybe in their secret idealistic hearts which never propel their actions -- in which case, who gives a fuck?

We need a progressive party, and the system is hardwired to prevent one from succeeding. Until unemployment hits 25%, at least.

comment #17

MovieBob says ...

"Bob: Don't get too cocky on the mid-terms."

Why would I be "cocky" about something I'd overall rather not see happen?

"While it's true there's likely to be a smaller turn-out than '08, that applies to voters of both parties. Not to mention that the Republican contenders still have to rework their PR to be able to win over disgruntled "independents"."

By what logic or polling are you going on this? Zogby has Obama's "strongly approve" rating down to 41%, Rassmussen has him at 30. His "likability" is still off the charts, naturally, but those numbers on the political end are NIGHTMARISH for his party.

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