comment #1

Ulysses says ...

Scientology is almost as silly a religion as Mormonism.

comment #2

scooterzz says ...

between the haggis letter and friday's nightline, it was a bad week-end to be tommy davis...kudos to haggis and bashir....

http://tiny.cc/CtYEF

comment #3

TulseLuper says ...

Any blow to Scientology is a good thing. Kudos to Haggis for finally taking the red pill. Now, if only he could apologize for Crash...

comment #4

DarthCorleone says ...

Any sort of group-think that actually demands that someone "sever all ties" with family or friends is obviously close-minded and vulnerable to the lowest level of intellectual scrutiny. It boggles my mind what irrational sheep humans can be at times. This garbage is not the path to our civilization's advancement.

comment #5

nightheat says ...

Eh, Christianity is a lot worse and destructive.

comment #6

bill weber says ...

I bet his films will still suck mightily.

comment #7

DeafBrownTrashPunk says ...

all religions are evil. that includes Scientology, Islam, Christianity, Mormonism, and everything else.

comment #8

buster keaton says ...

As my gf is fond of saying, Jews rule!

comment #9

M. Hulot says ...

Really, Buster? Tell that to the Palestinians on the West Bank.

comment #10

bluetide says ...

Kudos to Haggis. I don't take issue with Scientology because of their funky belief system. I am a Christian (a Baptist actually, although a fairly moderate one) but I also understand the difference between scientific research and moral allegory. Still, a lot of people would look at my beliefs as ridiculous. My issues with Scientology are financial and social.

Any religion that mandates a specific amount of payment to achieve "salvation" or "enlightenment" is highly suspect to me. I willingly fork over my tithes every month because my local church uses them in an extremely effective way to provide social services in a poor community. I don't get any brownie points for paying my tithes. If my church started using that money to build some giant monument to excess in the suburbs, I would contribute money somewhere else. And no one would have any power to stop me. Maybe someone would give me a guilty sounding phone call asking me why I chose to leave but that would be it. Scientology takes a very different tack. Also, my church encourages me to develop stronger ties to my friends and family, including those who do not share my beliefs, not to sever those ties. That said, there are plenty of Christian churches/denominations that approach finances and social connections in the exact same way that Scientology does so... stay away from them too I guess.

comment #11

Josh Massey says ...

This thread is going to be a blast.

comment #12

bluetide says ...

Their issue is should be with the Israeli government, not the worldwide Jewish population, Hulot. It's more than a little unfair to suggest otherwise.

comment #13

Daniel Tayag says ...

"Davis sounds like a spineless hypocrite."

Here's Davis' spinelessness pushing BBC reporter, John Sweeney, to the breaking point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwTDvfjcUJU

You guys should watch it, it's pretty hilarious.

comment #14

Gooner69 says ...

Tommy Davis vs the BBC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwTDvfjcUJU

All together now "you were not there!"

comment #15

COCO says ...

Here...here.....NO MIND CONTROL...I am not a
follower by nature and to be led down the path makes my skin crawl.....free thought!

comment #16

M. Hulot says ...

So it's not unfair for you to say "Jews rule"? Because that comment implies that ALL Jews rule. And I can assure you, that is certainly not the case.

Israel is referred to as what? The JEWISH state. Not the Buddhist state. Nor the Hindu state. The JEWISH state.

And by the way, the Israeli government is comprised of whom? Jews. Lots of em. And from many different countries, too. Including a whole bunch of Jews from the United States.

I've got no axe to grind with Jewosh people in general, by there are many who have not only condoned, but also partcipated many atrocities against innocent Palestinians--and many thousands of their innocent children.

Are the both culpable? Sure. Which is why giving carte blanche approval to any religious people is not only naive, but completely ridiculous. Even if you were kidding

comment #17

Gogocrank says ...

Israel may be a Jewish state, full of Jews, but it is not run (unlike, say, the Vatican or Salt Lake City) as some sort of global base of Jewish operations. I think what Buster meant was that as far as religions go, Judaism is pretty benign. They don't go around converting people, they don't go around decreeing this and that to be out of step with the Bible. You have a problem with Israel, you have a problem with Israel. Calling it the JEWISH state is as meaningless as calling South America the CATHOLIC continent.

comment #18

bluetide says ...

"Jews rule" was a joking comment that wasn't made by me.

But the fact remains that, even though Israel is a Jewish state, it only contains a fraction of the world's Jewish population and the current Israeli political leadership still represents a minority of that fraction. Even if you say you've "got no ax to grind with Jewish people in general," you seem to come mighty close to assessing culpability to them all for current Israeli policy in Palestine. There is term for people believing that all the world's Jews should be punished for the actions of a few: blood libel. Not to mention the fact that you totally disregard the Muslims, Christians, and other religious minorities currently living and voting in Israel.

I don't personally care for Netanyahu or his policies. I think you have seen a significant shift in the attitude of many Jewish Americans on Israeli policy towards the Palestinian territories with the growing profile of progressive groups like J Street. But even if that was not the case, it's no excuse for sidetracking a thread that should be devoted to making fun of Scientology.

comment #19

M. Hulot says ...

What's this cojones shit? Paul Haggis was a member of the "church" for 35 years, Wells. The fact that only now, after such a long period of time, he has some crisis of conscience and is leaving this cult, doesn't make him brave of honorable.

How many people has he helped to indoctrinate into this cult over the course of three decades? And why, after finally coming to his senses (something anyone would do with a half a head and a conscience after the first couple of weeks of listening to their bullshit) wouldn't he renounce the cult completely by shedding some actual light on the methodolgies they employ to indoctrinate the many?

He's not brave. Not in any way. Potentially risking your career AFTER you have had so much success (some of which was obtained through his connections made with others industry Scientologists, which why so many join the church in LA, like Larry Levy in The Player goes to AA) and have become filthy rich is not act of bravery. I wonder if he would have done so if be wasn't already set for life.

comment #20

M. Hulot says ...

Okay Gogo and Blue, you have both made valid points. And I agree with you.

However Blue, where do you get off telling me I was the one who sidetracked this thread? Not only was I not the first one to bring another religion into the mix, I didn't bring another religion into the mix at all. Until, of course, you did.

You mentioned Jews, not I. So maybe you should apologize for sidetracking this thread, yourself? And while you're at it, scroll up and write to all those who brought other religions into the mix before you, and complain to them how they sidetracked this thread first. Oh wait, do they not count because they didn't mention Jews? Is that the litmus test you're applying, you hypocrite?

comment #21

MovieBob says ...

So... why exactly is this the first I can remember hearing that Scientology was pro-Prop 8? Are they REALLY powerful enough to cover that up, or was I just not paying attention?

comment #22

Ronald McFirbank says ...

Scientology is very anti-gay because Hubbard was (and probably drove his son Quentin to suicide in part because of that). (Well, Elron was a Navy man.) You have to suspect that, especially on Hollywood Boulevard, a lot of the anxiety and guilt that drives young people to check out Scientology's "answers" is sexuality-based. They'd never say it, but they're basically in the same business as those fundamentalists teaching you to become ex-gay.

comment #23

Alexander says ...

M. Hulot, the way I read the thread, buster keaton brought up his girlfriend's joke, "Jews rule!" and then you issued a one-sentence missive against the State of Israel's occupation and mistreatment of Palestinians. After this, bluetide responded with two very necessary clarifying sentences simply retorting that equating "Jews" in the abstract with the government of Israel is "more than a little unfair."

He/she didn't bring up Jews to begin with; he/she only replied to your first comment directed at buster keaton. Which was essentially taking a joke of a comment and using it as a reason to criticize Israel's policies in the West Bank.

I'm just trying to help clear things up here...

Anyway, I'm sure that Haggis will continue to make one mediocre movie after another, as another fellow wrote here earlier.

comment #24

DavidF says ...

M. Hulot is proof that sometimes the anti-Zionism=anti-Semitism is the worst kind of kneejerk "argument" but SOMETIMES, it's dead on.

It takes a special kind of worldview to look at a jokey "Jews rule!" and immediately connect it to the Palestinian conflict. (Especially since, in that case, the Jews literally DO rule.)

One could point out that there are Arabs in the Israeli government or that or counter his arguments about "atrocities" but when I read "I've got no axe to grind with Jewosh [sic] people in general," I know that a "some of my best friends are Jewish!" is right around the corner and see there's really no point.

I read the thread the same way Alexander did and though I didn't post it, I also considered making a joke out of how Ms Brown neglected to include Jews in her list of horrible religions.

It was Hulot who took a seriousish anti-religious comment, followed by a joke, and made it political as if he could not see someone make a positive comment about the Jewish people and simply let it slide without comment. Point taken, sir.

comment #25

DeeZee says ...

Hulot: "Really, Buster? Tell that to the Palestinians on the West Bank."

I'm sure he would, but he's worried about being blown up. But hey, if you like 'em that much, why don't you live there yourself?

"Because that comment implies that ALL Jews rule. And I can assure you, that is certainly not the case."

Perhaps not, but at least they don't do hijackings....

"Israel is referred to as what? The JEWISH state. Not the Buddhist state. Nor the Hindu state. The JEWISH state."

Yep. So maybe if they murdered female babies after they're born, simply because they're female, you'd cut them some slack. Oh, wait, the people of India are "enlightened", so they get a pass.

"I've got no axe to grind with Jewosh people in general, by there are many who have not only condoned, but also partcipated many atrocities against innocent Palestinians--and many thousands of their innocent children."

There are many Arabs who've condoned and participated in what's been going on in Sudan, not to mention stoning or whipping women for being women; but they get a free pass, because they're "oppressed" by our "imperialistic ways".

"The fact that only now, after such a long period of time, he has some crisis of conscience and is leaving this cult, doesn't make him brave of honorable."

You could say the same about Arafat, but won't.

"wouldn't he renounce the cult completely by shedding some actual light on the methodolgies they employ to indoctrinate the many?"

I think he just did.

Ronald: http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/263120

comment #26

MAGGA says ...

"Their issue is should be with the Israeli government, not the worldwide Jewish population, Hulot. It's more than a little unfair to suggest otherwise."

Completely agree. But one of my own criticisms of the Israeli gouvenment is that it portrays a lot of criticism of its policies as antisemtism, when sometimes it's simply anti-war. I remember a lot of European politicians being given that label for calling Israels attacks on Gaza disproportionate. But this is not about riligion, but rather one's views on national security-policies, and therefore completely unrelated to scientology.

I would also agree that Haggis doesn't display that much courage in this situation, and saying he does is the same kind of thinking that gave Arafat a Peace Prize for no longer killing people. Haggis was silly for joining the cult, and has taken a step back towards reason.

comment #27

DeeZee says ...

MAGGA: "I remember a lot of European politicians being given that label for calling Israels attacks on Gaza disproportionate."

Maybe it's because they had a double-standard when it came to Milosevic?

comment #28

markj says ...

Tommy Davis is one of the most repulsive people on the planet. I get angry just thinkng about that piece of slime.

comment #29

bluetide says ...

Does anyone on here buy the oft-floated rumor that the massive number of Hollywood people who join Scientology is directly related to its "conversion therapy?" It's a serious question. You hear that stuff a lot about Tom Cruise, Will Smith, and others but I don't live in LA and a lot of you do so...

comment #30

Gordon27 says ...

I can't believe this thread descended into a debate on Judaism and the state of Israel, but all of the standard scientology trolls stayed away.

comment #31

Pynchon8 says ...

Will this make Haggis' movies any better? Guy is wildly overrated.

comment #32

Colin says ...

This is why Invention of Lying gets a pass from me. It veared off into standard rom-com, but hey it had the balls to say something, if only briefly. Organized religion is for twats.