comment #1

Gordon27 says ...

"New Yorkers are supposed to be moderately hip and aware."

Ha!

Give it a year or two, you're lamp to the truth about NYC, Jeff. The truth is that the reason NY has a reputation for being more hip and aware is that there are sooooo many people here. The percentage of hip and aware is not significantly larger than most places, but the numbers of people means that the "hip and aware" are enough of a market force. But the trade-off is that there's still an incredibly large percentage of not-at-all-hip not-at-all-aware people. In fact, I think NY tends to get the best of the best and the worst of the worst, as far as that goes.

comment #2

Eloi Manning says ...

"This obviously says nothing about the quality of the film, and almost everything about the lackluster marketing effort by Summit."

Yes. People were saying this all summer but you were intent on blaming it all on the Eloi.

comment #3

YRG says ...

I chuckled at how you were able to get "Extra Virgin waitress" in a sentence.

comment #4

Jeffrey Wells says ...

I still blame them. How can you not blame people who willfully choose ignorance (or at the very least a persistent aversion to curiosity) as a key element in their approach to movies?

comment #5

thebuddha says ...

Jeff, the attractive waitresses and hostesses at such popular yet seemingly quaint West Village restaurants are almost always aspiring models, actresses or trophy-WAGs, though none of those three descriptors are mutually exclusive. Their knowledge or high-grade and first rate non A-lister starring films is nonexistent. Said help are often wading in the shallowest end of the cultural awareness pool, often only knowing The Met and The Guggenheim as "the places with those awesome society parties," with the West Village being the geographical and ironically symbolic epicenter of their superficial boho-glamorous existence.
With that being said, you cannot fault Summit for their lack of marketing saturation, as a film like Hurt Locker (poetic, heart-pounding, difficult subject matter) would not benefit from the frantic Eloi word of mouth machine that is needed for otherworldly box office returns. As you have observed, Eloi are enthusiastic lemmings when being led by other lemmings, not so much when being led by a Arabian thoroughbred, or insert whatever animal you think is appropriate.
On a final note, Extra Virgin is one of the better restaurants of this ilk.

comment #6

Ryansi51 says ...

the title sucks, that also could explain it.

comment #7

Moises Chiullan says ...

Summit is great at making money on properties that need no marketing whatsoever (Twilight) but can't create audience perception to save their life.

comment #8

George Prager says ...

NYC waitresses and strippers like Pixar movies.

comment #9

SpinDozer says ...

The DVD/Bluray comes out January... 12th.

comment #10

Bilge says ...

I'm not sure Summit did anything to try and sell this film to a wider public. They've been going after critics and tastemakers and hoi polloi and whatnot, but I never saw any kind of advertising for this film anywhere. I think they figured (perhaps rightfully) that if they tried to win this game in the box office arena, they'd lose.

Instead they're hoping that a steady stream of year-end ten best lists and/or awards and nominations will help them reach out to a broader audience. At least, that's my theory.

comment #11

markj says ...

Ryansi51: The title only sucks if you're a moron. Brilliant title.

comment #12

Ryansi51 says ...

The Hurt Locker is where the cool kids stuffed you in 6th grade, Mark. Let the healing begin.

comment #13

Phreaker says ...

Summit has been doing just fine - setting up this lunch and other meet n' greets with Bigelow for starters.

The Oscars will put it on the map.

comment #14

LexG says ...

I can't speak firsthand for NYC, but as a 15-year Angeleno who's worked in the postproduction and DVD biz all of those years, it's kind of a folly to assume that all the denizens of a movie or cultural mecca actually know anything about anything.

You'd think LA and the fringes of the biz -- say acting classes, posthouses, screenwriters' workshops, comedy troupes -- would be filled with eager Tarantino-esque cinephiles who are plugged in to anything and everything showbiz.

But it was Tarantino himself who once said when he'd take acting classes back in the day, he was shocked that nobody there seemed to love or see movies as much as he did.

I have actor and comic friends and coworkers who probably haven't seen a first-run movie in a theater since 2006. How many wannabe screenwriters do you know in LA who have an oversized, disillusioned opinion about the biz but don't go to movies at all anymore?

I'm not talking about the people in the trenches who live and work in the industry and breathe this stuff 24/7.

I'm talking 9-to-5ers who dub tapes and encode chyron and do telecine-- all of whom think they're the Next Undiscovered Screenwriter or Actor, none of whom actually GO TO MOVIES...

In my office of 30-some post jockeys, I can assure you maybe TWO of us saw Hurt Locker; Actually, I might be the only one. Can guarantee you no more than 10 of those 40 have ever heard of it. These are not cat ladies working the Brazier in Des Moines; These are 30-40 year old guys who take acting classes and improv classes and Avid classes and want to be filmmakers.

It's kind of an L.A. epidemic actually -- the 30-year-old white guy who stops going to movies, stops listening to new music, always waxes nostalgic about some Goonies shit they liked when they were 12.

Now if those kinda dudes don't know what The Hurt Locker is, good luck getting some hot model-looking 20-something chick to care.

And, really, it's not that much of a generalization to say, by and large, YOUNG FEMALES aren't going to go see a movie about the Iraq War.

I know the subject matter is catnip to Jeff, and I can appreciate that, but there will never be, in the foreseeable future, a movie about this war that connects with audiences.

And I say that as someone who has The Locker in his 2 or 3 for the year. But you say "war movie" at this point in time, people plug their ears and go see Old Dogs.

comment #15

DeeZee says ...

John Cusack talks 2012.
http://www.darkhorizons.com/news/15665/exclusive-interview-john-cusack-on-2012-
Courtesy of Dark Horizons, the LA Sorcerer's Apprentice looks like shit.
http://fanboyz.net/2009/11/10/first-look-disneys-the-sorcerers-apprentice/
Pics from Shanghai and The Fighter
http://tinyurl.com/yhs24gg
Kick-Ass,
http://tinyurl.com/ydxkzma
NASA explains the 2012 phenomenon.
http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012.html
A script review of Mute from that Moon guy.
http://scriptshadow.blogspot.com/2009/11/mute.htmTravolta+Cruise in Butch Cassidy remake?
http://www.popeater.com/2009/11/11/john-travolta-butch-cassidy-and-the-sundance-kid/
Variety covers the 10 Best Picture controversy.
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118011232.html?categoryid=4&cs=1&ref=verttv&ref=ssp
ABC goes classy by only waiting a few months to cash in on Farrah's death with a new Charlie's Angels show.
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118011272.html?categoryid=14&cs=1
Jimmy gets a modern master award ten years too late.
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118011235.html?categoryid=13&cs=1&ref=ssp
Marty gets a Demille Award.
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118011215.html?categoryid=13&cs=1
Where are they now?
http://tinyurl.com/yao5cu2
Dances with Avatars.
http://www.heatvisionblog.com/2009/11/south-parks-avatar-parody.html
Anyone want more Saw?
http://tinyurl.com/yjhbpgr
Will "Somewhere" be Sophia's comeback film?
http://tinyurl.com/yaekqsh
Uni's a fan of David Manning.
http://tinyurl.com/yefexbt
Borgnine returns to a comic book movie.
http://www.heatvisionblog.com/2009/11/julian-mcmahon-joins-bruce-willis-in-red-.html
Ninja Assasin clips.
http://www.themoviebox.net/movies/2009/NOPQR/Ninja-Assassin/trailer.php
Grown Ups teaser.
http://www.themoviebox.net/movies/2010/Grown-Ups/trailer.php
Avatar spot.
http://www.themoviebox.net/movies/2009/0-9ABC/Avatar/trailer.php
Leap Year trailer.
http://www.themoviebox.net/movies/2010/Leap-Year/trailer.php

comment #16

Gordon27 says ...

The funny thing about this thread is that, if the "Eloi" were into this movie, Jeff would reflexively hate it on principle.

comment #17

scooterzz says ...

it might be hard for some of the minds on this site to understand but there are some very smart, very hip people who just don't give a whit about movies...they don't go to them...they don't care about them....some actually disdain them...and they're not the 'inferiors' wells paints them to be....

comment #18

citizenmilton says ...

let me hijack this thread for a loosely related anecdote.

if the theme is the continual undervaluing of this brilliant film, I experienced it in the worst possible way.

I saw it @ a theater whose sound system failed to kick to stereo... any knowledgeable fan knows this problem. the best variant of this problem is when it's not working during the trailers, so you can go and complain and not miss the movie. But, I had the reverse: loud-assed trailers, quiet mono movie.

So, I'm confronted with the awful choice- walk out and miss something in one of the most acclaimed movies of the year? Or, miss out on the experience by having a crap-ass presentation?

You never know when a "crying game" moment might exist in a movie - so, I'm always hesitant to walk out. But, I didn't see anyone else walk out, so, I took it upon myself. Went and complained. Got a bunch of blank empty stares by pimple-faced morons with no clue as to the fundamentals of their business. I assured them I know what I'm talking about. More blank stares yet a hollow promise to follow up.

As you already guessed, I got no results. So, I saw this brilliant film in piss-poor conditions.

My home system is increasingly becoming a far superior experience. The only times you're guaranteed a decent technical experience these days are the biggest blockbusters.

Next time I'm just going to walk out and not return. But, with specialty films like "Hurt Locker," it's such a terrible choice, since they often play on only one screen in my city.

Grrr.

/rant

comment #19

lazarus says ...

One of the best posts you've written, Lex.

And shut the fuck up, D.Z.

comment #20

googs says ...

@ LEXG

Amen, brother. Hit the nail on the head.

comment #21

Dan Revill (formerly Aladdin Sane) says ...

@LexG

Great post. I really don't like the Goonies. I didn't see it until I was like 21, so maybe that has something to do with it.

comment #22

LFF says ...

Summit knew from day one there was going to be no box office: you can tell because they didn't bother to make quad track prints. (no DTS) Its a dead giveaway that they don't think they will get decent venues booked for the film. They did did go quad track for Sorority Row though.
Priorities!

comment #23

Gordon27 says ...

The flip side is, I bet both of them have watched 'The Wire', if they're mid-twenties and white in NYC.

comment #24

DeeZee says ...

Aladdin: No, it's not just you. I was in the target group when Goonies first came out, and it never grabbed me. Time Bandits and Neverending Story were better movies, anyway.

comment #25

DeeZee says ...

Sorry, I needed to fix one of my last links. http://scriptshadow.blogspot.com/2009/11/mute.htm

comment #26

Fortunesfool says ...

The Hurt Locker does benefit from the full on 'sonics'. For me, the film collapses on second viewing though. Once you know how each set piece turns out, there's little reason to watch it again. It has no 'narrative, or particularly entertaining 'character' moments to re-live. Still a cracking experience though. I'd like to see Bigelow get an Oscar just on the strength of her back catalogue.

comment #27

Doug Pratt says ...

That could not possibly have been a photo from yesterday since it was pouring out all day long.

comment #28

Phreaker says ...

The other truth of it is that most people are too busy and too broke to shell out the dough to go see art house fare. Unless they have kids almost everyone I know is waiting for DVD to see all of the movies I talk to them about.

comment #29

creepingmalaise says ...

Be careful with assumptions about all those moderately hip & aware New Yorkers. Its a very large population with the same mix that most large cities endure. I remember reading somwhere about a "hip New Yorker type" who went into some NYC cafe and actually brough their own cake wrapped up in tin foil--and then asked the server for utinsels to eat it with! This may just be urban legend, but if not it does dispel the "New Yorkers are at least moderately hip and aware" assertion.

comment #30

Floyd Thursby says ...

I have a new co-worker with an MA in art history. She's lived in Chicago and New York for the past ten years but has seen few foreign films. Never seen an Asian film. Never heard of Wong Kar Wai.

comment #31

DeeZee says ...

Floyd: WKW isn't exactly a household name, unfortunately.

comment #32

Butters says ...

Can you really be that out of touch with things Jeff? Just because someone lives in NYC they are going to be hip? LexG hit on a lot of this in his post. It is not just Iraq war moives. It is smaller "art house" movies in general. I live in Michigan, and I only know one other person who saw The Hurt Locker in the theater. It was the same with Slumdog Millionaire. I know that got a wider release and had more marketing, but I drove an hour and a half to another city and saw it two months before anyone else I know did. I mentioned how excited I was for Up in the Air and none of my friends had even heard of it. People will see Old Dogs and some stupid Pixar movie that people claim is "genius" before anything that is actually intelligent. The other thing is a lot of people also have kids, I don't know why, so they don't have time to see movies like this. They have to go see KungFu Panda or some other shit like that. Their whole lives are taken up by their kids and they don't have time to do anything they want to do. Most of my friends that have kids will wait for the DVD to see movies like this and even then they usually don't have time. So it is what it is.

comment #33

dangovich says ...

"The other thing is a lot of people also have kids, I don't know why..."

Biological imperative?

comment #34

Noah Cross says ...

Um...Butters..."Old Dogs and some stupid Pixar movie"? There are a lot of bad animated films out there, but the pictures Pixar make are of a very different quality. And lumping their films in that bin of stupidity sounds like a rather snobbish brand of ignorance.

comment #35

taikwan says ...

Um..Um..Butters - I too live in Michigan but did see Hurt Locker locally, even though it was only there in my theater 2 weeks. And I wasn't alone but there were fewer than 30 people..

Hated Kung Fu Panda - had 2 kids with me - one agreed totally -5 years old, had his head in his hands moaning - "When will it end?"

comment #36

Butters says ...

Thanks taikwan. The Hurt Locker also played locally where I live in Michigan. It did seem to play for about two weeks and it was gone. I had seen it before it came out locally because I happened to be in Indianapolis and The Hurt Locker was already out there so I saw it. We do seem to get most movies and sometimes I am surprised at some of the movies that happen to play in our area. Though, as you noted takiwan you have to get to them reasonably quickly since most of the smaller films don't play longer than a couple of weeks. Also, dangovich I understand most people want to have kids I just don't. Everyone is different.

comment #37

Chicago48 says ...

The first problem with the movie was the title, which I've been raging against from the beginning. Next, it had no support, no marketing from anywhere. Not even the actors & director promo'd it when it first came out. Did they not have any faith in the movie?

I hope Kathryn gives credit where it's due: the Critics kept this movie alive. Let's pat the backs of the critics.

comment #38

Chicago48 says ...

Phreaker -- what city or world do you live in? People have money to see Avatar, they have money to see art house movies.

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