comment #1

BurmaShave says ...

Anthony Smith's denial is dangerous. I would invite him to come to D.C. sometime. No one would suggest that this is the everyday black experience, but it is for some, and more than the ivory tower types like Mr. Smith would care to realize.

comment #2

Travis Crabtree says ...

Sorry, but it's just a story.

If this or other movies like this were the only ones released year after year that featured primarily black characters then I could see his point.

I'd think he and/or any other African American would be more offended by the upcoming Sandra Bullock movie, which, (from what I see in the trailers), is yet another guilty, patronizing, elitist wet-dream about the saintly white people coming to the rescue of the down-and-out, can't fend for himself, gentle-giant black man.

comment #3

lbeale says ...

Sapphire - African-American
Lee Daniels - " "
Oprah - " "
Gabby - " "
Mo'Nique - " "
Is this guy saying they are 'race traitors?' If so, what's their agenda? And why? Does the Precious 'type' not exist? Anywhere? This strikes me as a class thing within the Af-Am community. The educated elite embarrassed by the lumpenproletariat.
And hey - there were teenagers laughing at Schindler's List. This kind of reaction means nothing to me. Teenagers can be really stupid and obtuse.

comment #4

Mark says ...

"I think artistically it's not excellent and socially it's dangerous."

The first part, is like, his opinion, man, (and like not excellently written either), and the second part can be interpreted as high praise.

comment #5

Travis Crabtree says ...

Ibeale is dead on about the teenagers. It's true about Schindler's List.
I heard some teens laughing at the helmet-less guy getting shot in the forehead in Saving Private Ryan.
Not a good gauge for anything.

comment #6

Josh Massey says ...

I was a 5th grade teacher for a number of years in a poor minority community - and let me tell you, Precious does exist (I saw many versions in my school, both black and Hispanic).

Teenage - and pre-teenage - pregnancy is a massive problem, as is obesity, child abuse, poverty, welfare and illiteracy. I saw every one of them, and I was teaching elementary school. And the stories I heard from nearby middle and high schools were even worse.

comment #7

frankbooth says ...

Of course Precious exists. Mgmax has to endure her in all her surly warthog glory every time he goes to the supermarket. And you think life is rough for her?

comment #8

Phreaker says ...

There is also always a need to drag down fellow African Americans when they have a little bit of success - Spike Lee has also criticized the film and i think for those reasons. We've become so politically correct that the only black characters (or gay characters for that matter) we see on screen are perfect or heroic in some way.

The reason this film is doing well isn't because it exploits the black community (lol) and it isn't because it gives white people a valid reason to hate black people.

It is getting attention because it is a good story well told. Full stop. No one is watching and going, "oh those poor black people! If only we threw more welfare money at them everything would be okay!" This is an imperfect person growing up in a world of abuse and rape. PERSON, not "black person."

This same story could be transplanted to a white trash family in Arkansas (and have the same effect), a poor family in Moscow, etc. The only thing about it that is "American," particularly, is the main character's obesity - and that, my friends, seems straight out of Flannery O'Connor.

Let black artists be artists too and not just "black." Good lord.

And by the way, how is it that this conversation took place anyway? Was this some meeting with a publicist from a rival studio?

comment #9

Mark says ...

This list of inappropriate opportunities to laugh is long with Spielberg, and shouldn't be a judgment on anyone except maybe Speilberg. In his defense though, he does deal in outrageous territory, concentration camps, D-day, killer alien Tripods, flying bicycles, Tom Cruise does drugs, etc.

Sometimes inappropriate laughter derives from extreme directorial cheating, as in the Schindler shower scene, and sometimes it's just a blunt OMG reaction to a shocking occurrence. The throwing of the wheelchair guy from the balcony comes to mind, by Polanski.

comment #10

BlueBird says ...

First, how many of the posters have seen the film?
Second, when I saw the film, teenagers and adults were laughing at inappropriate times throughout the film. That makes me assume that it was a comedy. I am well aware of comedic release in films that are very heavy, however, many events that took place in the movie that were not placed in the film for relief, were found to be funny.

I am a young, black, female. I am not offended at the subject matter, but the movie in itself. It did not tell a story!

I am tired of people so quick to judge a film to be amazing, just because who's tied to the film (Oprah and Tyler Perry). Look at this film and assess it honestly. And if you are truthful, you will know that this film is GARBAGE.

comment #11

BlueBird says ...

Lastly, no one knows this Mr. Smith so dont attack him because of your assumptions of him. I am in full agreement with his comments. Finally, someone was honest. There is hope...

comment #12

Colin says ...

As rare as this is, I'm agreeing with Josh Massey.

I grew up in Baltimore, I doubt Mr. Smith has anything comparable in his childhood to relate to.

He wants to talk about a disconnect he went to fucking Dartmouth and works at acquisitions for Sony he has no idea what it's like and how bad it really is in the inner city.

comment #13

Colin says ...

Hope for what BlueBird? Another chance to deny that there are problems in the inner-cities that needs to be focused on.

Smith, Lee, you are all black and that's great, but that has nothing to do with the conversation. This type of problem exists in all areas of all races.

comment #14

Phreaker says ...

Bluebird, trust me. That Oprah and Tyler Perry are involved isn't the reason people call it amazing.

comment #15

BlueBird says ...

Wow Colin...Send me the lottery numbers since you are able just know everything. Have you seen the film because it is in limited release.. just asking..

I didnt get that Mr. Smith was saying she doesn't exist. I am not saying she doesn't exist. But Lee Daniels said that "we all know her...we just choose not to." If you read the comment, he is saying this is not the "central theme" in black communities around the country. Again, I have no problem with the story. It was the MOVIE I have a problem.

Hope?? yeah I am hopeful when more people are honest then we can get better films. Instead, of me trying to support black films time and time again... and get nothing in return but disappoint and disgust.

comment #16

BlueBird says ...

Phreaker you seen the film?

comment #17

lawnorder says ...

First of all, there is a good deal of artistry in PRECIOUS. Daniels takes quite a few risks with the material, most of them successful. If you want to talk about stereotypes on the screen this year, how about the Coens' A SERIOUS MAN? The stereotype of the nebbisher, schlumpy accountant type Jewish guy couldn't have been more pervasive - most of the Jewish characters are portrayed as unattractive, overweight or wimpy and their women as short and chubby. The only hot chick on screen was the "goyisher" neighbor and our lead doesn't even get to bang her. But I don't hear anyone coming out against the film based on perpetuating a certain harmful stereotype. I enjoyed PRECIOUS more than A SERIOUS MAN, but that's only because I bought into the characters more. The Coens are incapable of tackling anything with any kind of real emotion. Their approach is so cerebral at times that I'm pretty sure they go out of their way to confound viewers, while at the same time getting critics to kiss their ass. Most critics are afraid to call the Coens out on their shit because they're afraid of being labeled as someone "who doesn't get it." While I've seen and met examples of both character types from PRECIOUS and A SERIOUS MAN in both cultures, that doesn't mean that they represent for the culture or ethnicity or whatever you call it. Will Smith, an African American, is the biggest box office star in the world. Barak Obama is President of the United States. Denzel Washington has been a box office powerhouse for many years. Jamie Fox won the Oscar a few years ago and is still a major star. Oprah, Tyler Perry, Eddie Murphy... In fact, I think we may have more African American stars from the United States than caucasian ones. All the other big stars, except for Damon, Depp and Clooney are from other countries (Crowe, Bana, Bale, Kidman, Watts, Winslet, Blachett, Day Lewis, Statham, Craig, Jackman...)

comment #18

Colin says ...

I've seen the film, I'm lucky that Reno gets limited release films.

Mr. Smith seemed pretty intent on making the point clear that he did not know her therefore no one in the black community does.

There's no false pretense to this film there is truth it may be slightly exaggerated but this all exists. Maybe you hate the film because of its tone, not the material. But to discount what awareness people are trying to bring to this social problem is just not right.

comment #19

bluefugue says ...

I don't see why Precious has to be some kind of broad statement about urban African-American families anymore than Hamlet is a broad statement about Danish princes. I'm hesitant ever to relinquish the specificity of a given story and its characters.

comment #20

Ray says ...

Well, Oprah doesn't know anyone like the characters here anymore. But I am sure they exist. This kids argument sounds like all of those black people who moaned when Cosby went off on black culture years ago. It seems that a lot of black people refuse to see the reality of things, even when it's right in front of them. 80% of prisoners are black? "Dats someone elses fault!" The majority of violent crimes, murders, and rapes are commuted by blacks? "man, dat ain't true!" it's ridiculous.

If that makes me a racist, then so be it. But it's time for the black community to honestly look at its behavior in order to fix it.

comment #21

BlueBird says ...

No Colin. I saw the trailer.... I knew the tone. However, the material in the movie was just that. Material..Action if you will, only to provoke emotion. You have your opinion about it bringing awareness to this social problem, I have my opinion about it being exploitive.... Tell me how her not having food in the house and her going and stealing a bucket of fried chicken and devouring in the street to later regurgitate is bringing awareness to this social problem. I could go on and on with the problems of this film... But I am done.. My final opinion is that it was poorly done.

comment #22

Colin says ...

It was awareness of an eating disorder brought about by mistreatment.

Like I said if it offended you, maybe the problem is with your conscience not the film.

comment #23

lipranzer says ...

"how many of the posters have seen the film?"

I saw the film. Not only that, I saw it with an audience that was probably half to 2/3 African-American. I don't remember anyone laughing at inappropriate places (although when Precious leaves her mother in the apartment, and they show the mother looking at the empty apartment, one of the audience members yelled out something like "Too bad," and the audience laughed at that), and there was light applause at the end.

As to judging the film to be amazing just because Tyler Perry attached his name as producer, I don't like Perry's movies at all, so that made me more hesitant about the movie.

Does the film deal with the larger sociological issues in how a family like the one Precious grows up in gets like that? Only glancingly, true, but I do think it's there.

comment #24

quit staring says ...

Is there, like, a point to this movie aside from feeling miserable and skeeved out? I've read several reviews, and I can't tell if there's any story at all, or is it really just lots of screaming and incest rape and uglified Mariah Carey? Everyone seems to agree the performances are great, and I'm sure they are, but life is depressing enough. Does anyone know of a reputable inner-city education fund I can send my $12.50 to instead so I can just stay home and watch Aliens again?

comment #25

BurmaShave says ...

lawnorder I find your thesis extremely compelling but Hanks & Cruise are still so unavoidably major stars.

comment #26

BlueBird says ...

About the bandwagoners.. Why so many people are calling this movie amazing...

Once, I cooked Crawfish Etoufee for a family member's funeral. I am not a great chef and it was, just ok.. My father went around after telling everyone that they had to taste the Etoufee.. "its amazing!"

Do you know how many people came exclaiming how amazing my etoufee was?? Asking me for the recipe, and it was only the Tony Satcheree packet. My father later told me that he did that to show how you talk something up and get people to believer what you want. Also, never to let someone make up my mind for me.

The hype behind precious and Oprah and Tyler Perry have done just that, made up everyone's mind about Precious. Oprah can attach her name to anything and anyone for that matter and have it fly. NO ONE can deny that.

I am just sad that so many people didnt have a father like mine.

comment #27

Renfield says ...

According to his logic, the American public must think the following:

I've seen "Schindler's List" so all Germans must be evil.

I've seen "Hoop Dreams" so all black people are poor and trying to get into school based on basketball skills.

I've seen "Supercop" so all Chinese people know karate and are drunken masters.

I've seen "Strange Brew" so all Canadians love hockey and drink until they can piss-out a massive factory fire.

Does the world of "Precious" exist? Of course it does! Black, white, hispanic...whatever.

Saying that a story about a slice of life within a race is complete bullshit.

Moron.

comment #28

Phreaker says ...

"broad statement about urban African-American families anymore than Hamlet is a broad statement about Danish princes. "

You are the one saying that, Bluebird. No one else is. Why should it be a statement about African-American families and not a story about a family period?

comment #29

Phreaker says ...

Sorry I meant Bluefugue.

comment #30

Ronald McFirbank says ...

"Of course Precious exists. Mgmax has to endure her in all her surly warthog glory every time he goes to the supermarket. And you think life is rough for her?"

Not every time. Maybe one out of three.

Anyway, reports of laughter confirm my suspicion that it's basically Monique Dearest.

comment #31

Colin says ...

Phreaker, that was blue_fugue

I had to read it twice myself.

comment #32

DeeZee says ...

LA. Weekly had a similar issue w/ Hustle and Flow.
http://www.laweekly.com/2005-09-08/film-tv/pimping-the-ride

comment #33

Colin says ...

Hustle & Flow was a shit movie you can't even begin to compare Precious to that.

comment #34

Gordon27 says ...

"who tells me he's had two acquisition jobs so far (with Sony and First Look under Ruth Vitale) and has an MBA from Dartmouth, and who knows how to write fairly well."

I'm not going to mock Jeff for the "he speaks so well" type gaffe, but instead for the idea that he told Jeff that he writes well, so Jeff accepts that, whether the text he wrote proves it or not.

"The reason I'm attacking the credibility is that there's no explanation for Mo'Nique's character," he said. "There's no cause and effect...it is mental illness or what? I think the message is extremely dangerous."

Ah, so, basically, it's artistically bad because the movie doesn't explain why she's turned into a horrible person? That definitely sounds like somebody who has worked in Hollywood too long and accepted their standards for "good writing".

"the central themes in black communities across the U.S. and in Harlem"

This is true; we all saw last week's '30 Rock', so we all know that Harlem is not part of the US.

"are not ones of incest, rape, teenage pregnancy, physical and mental-child abuse, obesity, poverty, welfare, illiteracy and AIDS."

This is debatable, certainly; if he's saying the individual households within the community, I'd agree. But if he's saying that these aren't the major issues that the black communities are fighting, he's nuts; the only thing it's missing is drug abuse.

"And yet director-producer Lee Daniels has said of Gabby Sidibe's Precious character, 'I know this chick. You know her. But we just choose not to know her.' Well, I don't know Precious, and I have a hunch that most other black Americans don't know her either.""

So, wait a minute -- his answer to "You choose not to know her" is "No, I don't know her!" Interesting way to miss the point, Anthony.

"there were four teenage girls sitting behind me, and they might not have been old enough to even be in that movie but they were laughing at some of it...they thought it was funny."

I'm assuming these girls were black, because if they were white, this anecdote wouldn't prove your point. However, I'm going to toss out an old Oscar Wilde quote that Stephen King co-opted to discuss recent Philip Roth books: "'One would have to have a heart of stone to read the death of little Nell without dissolving into tears of laughter." The point being, it's certainly true that authors frequently pile so much misery on their leads in an effort to make the story "serious" that it becomes ridiculous. But that's got nothing to do with black or white.

"The behavior by Mo'Nique's character and her husband/boyfriend rapist is definitely an aberration, and these critics weren't courageous to even address that honestly. [NY Times critic] AO Scott lives in Brooklyn...and his not questioning any of this is some kind of disconnect."

Yeah, you know what I wonder, is why didn't more people point out that most psychiatrists don't kill *and* eat people when 'Silence of the Lambs' came out? Isn't it a critics job to explain patiently to their readers not only that the movie they're reviewing is fictional, but exactly how it is?

"This is in line with Tyler Perry because it's in line with his taste, but I'm really shocked at Oprah...is this the best she can recommend? The friends of Precious saying 'we know this, we see this on a daily basis'...I think they're lying, they're downright lying."

Honestly, I think it says an awful lot about this guy that he out-and-out accuses people of lying for saying that they relate to the truth in this story. I'm not sure precisely what it says, but it says volumes of it.

"It is 2009 and sadly, Hollywood is stuck in the dark ages," his letter concludes. "An industry that touts the membership of progressive-minded professionals and artists is, in fact, staunchly conservative in its refusal to finance, produce and distribute quality motion pictures by and for people of color."

You know, ten years ago, this was a much more reasonable argument. Right now, if he was a woman, yeah, I'd definitely agree. But there are plenty of black filmmakers in the ranks. Arguing about the quality of the movies the studios make is ridiculous; the studios make shit movies full stop. It's not as if the studios are saying, "Hey, we've got 1% of our operating budget set aside for actual quality movies and it's all going to white people.' They don't try to make quality movies, period.

Now, if he were an intellectually honest person, he'd say "I don't like Precious, but the fact that it has been so blatantly defying the box-office prognosticators is a good thing, because it is just one element proving that there is a large African-American audience that is mostly untapped by the studio output, and that, if the studios were able to figure out a way to market to them, that would be wonderful for everybody and result in more black-centered films." But he doesn't say that, because acknowledging that 'Precious' helps the very thing he's criticizing it over wouldn't help his argument.

"I make a sincere plea to all key decision makers at the major studios to rethink their diversity strategy. Include more talent diversity in your major label features and tentpoles. For pictures predominately about people of color, of different cultural origins, sexual orientations and religious affiliations, consider making honest investments in development, to actually produce a quality picture."

So, by this statement, he thinks that "tentpoles" and "movies about people" / "quality movies" / "honest" movies are not entirely mutually exclusive?

Interesting, but that doesn't jibe with reality.

comment #35

Gordon27 says ...

EDIT: I should have say "inner city black communities", not just "black communities".

comment #36

Chicago48 says ...

I give Lee Daniels kudos for bringing this character to the screen....because she's so anti-Hollywood....she's not lovely, she's not thin, she's not white, she's grotesquely fat and illiterate. Yes, there is a lot of illiteracy in the black community, you only have to be a teacher to know that, and the kids in the urban schools need help.

I don't know Precious, but I know some parts of Precious. I know the illiterate part. I know the struggling part. I know the emotionally abusive and negligent mother. The incest part I don't know. and I don't know any mother who tells her daughter to go get welfare .... most mothers want the best for their children, they just don't know how to get it for the child.

comment #37

Chicago48 says ...

Has anybody heard what Spike thinks about the movie?

comment #38

Chicago48 says ...

Hustle and Flow was the bomb....loved that movie.

comment #39

bluefugue says ...

>The Coens are incapable of tackling anything with any kind of real emotion.

They often traffic in archness, but Kelly MacDonald's confrontation with Javier Bardem at the conclusion of "No Country" achieves real emotion, while Frances McDormand's chiding of Peter Stormare in "Fargo" ("There's more to life than a little bit of money. Don't you know that?") is one of the most powerfully, directly moral moments I've ever encountered in cinema.

I'd argue, in fact, that because the Coens are so reluctant to do anything that might be perceived as sentimental, the effect when they *do* play it straight is often hard to forget.

comment #40

VictorLazlo says ...

Wells now trotting out a token black opinion before he goes into full anti-Precious onslaught, just in time for Oscar season.

Movies about unlikely people overcoming overwhelming odds are what the movies are made of. Just like SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE.

comment #41

arturobandini2 says ...

BlueBird, crawfish etoufee is a really hard dish to master. You gotta remove the roux from the heat the very second it turns dark brown, stir in the vegetables, or the whole thing burns.

One thing (of many) that's always bugged me about Oprah: Why won't she throw her support behind jazz music? With the snap of her fingers, she can move millions of books or sell a dreary movie. But has she ever endorsed the greatest black contribution to arts culture in American history? She's from CHICAGO, for fuck's sake. Right now jazz desperately needs a champion in the league of Cosby or Hefner. But Oprah incredulously seems to prefer Celine Dion. Go figure.

Apologies for the topic drift.

comment #42

Gordon27 says ...

Fugue - the final line of 'The Man Who Wasn't There' is one of the best emotional payoffs to a movie I've ever seen. (That's just for starters.)

comment #43

Gordon27 says ...

arturo - you're saying that she should support jazz simply because she's black? I've always gotten the sense that she supports what she likes. Maybe she doesn't like jazz. In fact, in my experience, not to stereotype, but most of the people in the country who still listen to jazz are white people who studied music.

comment #44

DeeZee says ...

As per Jeff's request, I'll only link on this thread.
Kick-Ass teaser.
http://www.themoviebox.net/movies/2009/IJKLM/Kick-Ass/trailer.php
Titans teaser.
http://www.themoviebox.net/movies/2010/Clash-Of-The-Titans/trailer.php
Up in the Air spot.
http://www.themoviebox.net/movies/2009/STUVWXYZ/Up-In-The-Air/trailer.php
New IGN clip for 'Assassin.
http://www.themoviebox.net/movies/2009/NOPQR/Ninja-Assassin/trailer.php
Morgan Freeman gets honored at Palm Springs.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/film/news/e3i8d89a411d4e37fb53be40964c9aae40c
What better way to celebrate Thanksgiving than to be depressed by Precious with the whole family.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/film/news/e3i1239cf1a1e13f623d01b7dc75afad957
Who's going to grab the Moneyball?
http://riskybusiness.blogs.thr.com/2009/11/moneyball-brad-pitt.html
Denzel does Broadway.
http://weblogs.variety.com/bfdealmemo/2009/11/washington-scales-fences-.html
Will Di$ney save Nine?
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118011134.html?categoryid=1238&cs=1
Will Beatty finally get ahold of Dick...Tracy again?
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118011141.html?categoryid=13&cs=1
Cage talks Bad Lieutenant Deux.
http://www.darkhorizons.com/news/15640/exclusive-cage-talks-bad-lieutenant-
The original Murdock has a cameo in the A-Team,
and del Toro has a cameo in The Hobbit.
http://www.darkhorizons.com/news/15641/-conan-hobbit-a-team-cameos

comment #45

arturobandini2 says ...

Why shouldn't Oprah support jazz just because she's black? That part of her community desperately needs her. Obama, too. And I'm not the first to say it. There are so many jazz legends in their 70s and 80s still touring because they have no health insurance or retirement funds. Most probably make less than $100 a gig. The reason you perceive that only whites like jazz is probably because most clubs are prohibitively expensive to everyone but the wealthy class. When the Jazz Bakery was still in business (a topnotch, budget-friendly club in L.A. that's sorely missed), you saw all races and all ages in attendance. Surely Oprah doesn't spend all her off-time reading and shopping Hermes after hours in Paris that she couldn't do one show a year on America's only original art form.

comment #46

THE MovieBob says ...

I haven't seen the movie, but regardless I don't agree with this fellow on what seems to be his over-arching "point," i.e. the Spike Lee/Bamboozled argument that Hollywood (and "black Hollywood" in particular) has a responsibility to cheifly promote positive images of the black community.

That said, I can't say that I don't understand where his frustration is coming from in the sense of white/mainstream film critics (and awards shows) being more apt to praise "negative" black films than positive ones. Quick show of hands now, and BE HONEST: How many of us believe that a predominantly black-cast film that was every bit as good a "Precious" BUT featured a stable, middle-class black family instead would be as lauded, talked-about and awards-buzzed?

Of course it wouldn't, you know it, I know it, and it sucks. So agree or not, I can't fault the guy for a "here we go again" reaction as White Guilt Nation falls all over itself fawning over this particular film.

comment #47

DeeZee says ...

Oh, and the decade's worst predictions, according to Newsweek.
http://2010.newsweek.com/top-10/worst-predictions/alan-sugar.html

comment #48

Gordon27 says ...

"Why shouldn't Oprah support jazz just because she's black?"

Well, I'm pretty sure that Oprah Winfrey got to where she is today but not focusing solely (or even all that much) on her race but, beyond that, I don't think anybody has a responsibility to support something just because of their race.

"The reason you perceive that only whites like jazz is probably because most clubs are prohibitively expensive to everyone but the wealthy class."

Yeah, but CDs aren't. And I don't mean it's only whites, I'm just saying, anecdotally, it leans heavily to the white music students.

That's entirely separate from aging jazz musicians and their health; sure, it would be nice to have somebody like Oprah throw her support behind them, but it would be just as nice for Ellen or Rosie (does Rosie still have a show?).

comment #49

Gordon27 says ...

Browsing that list, it appears that Newsweek has never seen DZ's predictions.

comment #50

BriOut says ...

"How many of us believe that a predominantly black-cast film that was every bit as good a "Precious" BUT featured a stable, middle-class black family instead would be as lauded, talked-about and awards-buzzed?"

I'm sorry you feel that way, MovieBob. I happen to disagree. I think that awards-buzzed films rarely feature stable families, so to pick on films with black casts is a bit unfair of you.

American Beauty - a picture of stability.
Ordinary People - yeah, I wanna be a part of that clan.
Revolutionary Road - so warm, those people.
Rachel Getting Married, Frozen River, Requiem for a Dream, The Savages... I could go on. Some of the dysfunction is harsher than others, but stability is the enemy of drama. At least this film makes a stab at presenting real dynamics for some families.

I just don't see the reason this film is getting punched for being manipulative when it's no more manipulative (or artistic an expression) than the bleak-as-hell but amazing Requiem for a Dream

comment #51

scooterzz says ...

"...I took the time to speak today to an obviously bright and articulate 29 year-old African American guy..."

why not just say he was 'well spoken'.....

comment #52

bitplayer says ...

I am a black man and am luke warm about the film. I think its exploitive and very shaky in parts. The problem is that so few movies about African-Americans or any non-white Americans gets made that every release carries a lot of baggage. They must be all things to all people because there probably won't be another one in six months to a year. I'm not that old and I remember what a big deal it was to go see movies starring black people who weren't stand up comedians. It was really an event. I wish this still wasn't true but it is. All the money Tyler Perry made for Lionsgate doesn't seem to mean anything since no other studio has tried to develop a similar brand.

comment #53

Terry McCarty says ...

Mark wrote:
The throwing of the wheelchair guy from the balcony comes to mind, by Polanski.

Something similar happens in Don Siegel's 1958 film THE LINEUP.

comment #54

Terry McCarty says ...

Gordon27 wrote:
That's entirely separate from aging jazz musicians and their health; sure, it would be nice to have somebody like Oprah throw her support behind them, but it would be just as nice for Ellen or Rosie (does Rosie still have a show?).

Rosie's now on Sirius/XM satellite radio.

comment #55

M. Hulot says ...

This needs to be said, even if I'm branded as a racist, so be it.

If you look at the complete sum total of all American films directed by Black filmmakers over the last fifteen years or so, a huge proportion of them SUCK.

Sure, there are pockets of greatness in there, but a majority of them are really quite bad. And that's true, regardless of the subject matter.

Look at the work of the most prolific Black filmmakers working in Hollywood and the Independent scene in recent history. Who are the major contributors?

Spike Lee
The Hughes Brothers
The Hudlin Brothers
Tyler Perry
Carl Franklin
John SIngleton
F. Gary Gray

And what do most of these filmmakers share in common?
MOST of their movies SUCK.

Spike has made maybe one worthwhile film this whole decade (The 25th Hour, and he almost ruined what is his most highly profitable film to date, Inside Man) Tyler Perry's movies are simplistic, unfunny, poorly-written crap. Sure they make a whole lot of money, but they are completely inane (not to mention the whole black man dressing as fat woman cliche) .Singleton gave up a long time ago, and HIgher Learning and Poetic Justice are two of the worst films of the 90's.) Carl Franklin's stuff has been pretty lackluster since One False Move (except for maybe Devil in a Blue Dress, which has more to do with Cheadle and Washington's awesome work in it than anything else). F. Gary Gray had a hit with the Italian Job remake (which wasn't so bad, and I liked The Negotiator, as well. But he also made Be Cool--which was effing horrible)

For such a small circle of people, Black filmmakers in Hollywood have a pretty shoddy track record over the past fifteen years.

So what does that say? Are there just as many White filmmakers have have produced just as much crap? Sure, probably more of it. But given that there are so few Black filmmakers--at least one's who work fairly regularly--why does it seem that they make disproportionate amount of shitty films?

And Lee Daniels is a hack, too. He got lucky with Precious because it's a touchstone, zeitgeisty thing given that Obama is our President and people are actually arguing that we live in a post racial America...as if) Other than that, ANYONE could have directed it. White or Black. It's beat-you-over-the-head, poverty porn, crap.

And that's that.

comment #56

DeeZee says ...

Flowers for Will Smith.
http://www.darkhorizons.com/news/15644/will-smith-grows-flowers-for-algernon-

comment #57

VictorLazlo says ...

I think it needs to be said that Mr. Hulot is an idiot.

comment #58

JaySmack says ...

Gee, isn't it interesting how the people who LOVE this movie are almost all WHITE?
The people who demand crap like this are almost all white?
The people who COMPLAIN that blacks are portrayed as "saintly" are all white?
I'm sorry, some of the posters above were saying something about how this movie isn't racist or doesn't play to stereotypes, or how they loved it simply because it's a "good story?"
Get off the stupid juice!

The last ten years we've seen white people drooling for a resurgence of racist archetypes and calling it all just good fun. And using the term "politically correct" sa some sort of shield for their blatant racism.
Take the above poster Phreaker who actually has a problem with blacks being portrayed in a positive light.
Come out of your cave, little boy. The real world is not your imagination.

The new Oscar bait these days is whatever disgusting racist portrayl of blacks you can concoct.
Denzel EARNED the Oscar for Malcolm X, but we all knew in advance there was no way in hell he would get it. However, he plays a villain for the first time in his career, and get the Oscar hands down.
Wow, sure didn't see that one coming, did we?

Forest Whittaker has been turning in Oscar-worthy performaces his whole career, but they wanted to se him play a dictator, whose alleged "crimes" even they aren't sure of, before they gave him an Oscar.

And is any retard actually going to tell me that Halle got the Oscar because of her fine work in Monster's Ball? The ONLY part of her "performance" that anyone even remembers is her on all-fours for Billy Bob.
Say, did Jessica Lange have to do that? Or Sally field? Or Hilary Swank?
I mean, if they did then I don't have a case. If they didn't then YOU don't have a case and should have a couple of valium pills with a large glass of STFU!

If Halle's performance in MB was so great there were PLENTY of blaxploitation films in the 70's whose white actresses SHOULD have won an Oscar too, because they did a far better job of asking a black man to plug them in the ass than Halle did.
The more you pretend that there's no pattern the more you prove there is.

Perhaps Jeff is too new to the business to realize this. Black critics and filmgoers --and people with an IQ above room temperature!!-- said long before the Oscars that Don Cheadle didn't stand a chance of winning for Hotel Rwanda, because the character he portrayed was DIGNIFIED. Only black actors who portray a stereotype get the awards.
I notice Jeff has never bothered to do an examination of this.
Perhaps if he did he would not waste time writing posts like the one he just did.

So, what do you say, Jeff? Care to do a winner-by-winner analyses of the BLACK award winners, and the WHITE ones?
See if there's a pattern of having to confirm/play a degrading stereotype before you get the award?

Morgan Freeman should have won an Oscar for his Detective Sommerset from the movie SE7EN. Or even for Red from The Shawshank Redemption.
Problem is white movie critics and the "academy" are run by people who think like the reprobates in this thread. They saw his performace was "too dignified." Black people are being shown in too good a light. We don't dare acknowledge of repsect that!
Ah, but he played a bowing, scraping, shuffling sidekick to Clint Eastwood and "The Oscar goes too..."
BTW, did anyone notice that some retard white guy calls Morgan a "nigger" to his face, and morgan then goes on to beat up the black teenager who rightfuly beats the piss out of said retard?
I'm thinking just as Halle didn't have to do much to get her Oscar, Morgan didn't have to do much either.

Ving Rhames had to play Don King, and as expected it was a role as deep as a birdbath. Characterized as evreything that's wrong with boxing. Because as we all know boxing had no problems or controversies before king came along.

This is why Sam Jackson has not and will not get an Oscar. And no film he stars in will win a Best Picture award. He refuses to play your game.

Look, to the no-doubt white posters who are defending this movie, you are the reason why racism exists. You drool and make animal noises for ANYTHING that degrades black people.
You are the folks who think Al jolson's crap was jsut fine, because you thought Robert Down Jr was just fine too.
When somebody says it's wrong, you are the first to trip over your untied shoelaces frothing at the mouth and screaming obscenities because somebody dares to threaten the thing that matters most to you: your right to degrade other people, beacuse you yourselves feel --and are-- worthless.
That's no insult, just a clear analysis of your pathological behavior.

You know this crap is racist, but it's red meat to folks like you. And so, like a dog you drool when your favorite meal is brought out. Hey, blacks don't own the studios --you do. black don't write the reviews for the major trades, you do.
And as long a that's the case you will churn out whatever bigoted crap you drool for. And people like the above posters will continue to give yourselves a pass for this crap, because you can't find any black people to do it for you.
Just remember, that when White Chicks 2 starts filming that your no-doubt inevitable bitching and complaining will be ignored and indeed ridiculed as "political correctness run amok."
Which it would be.

And Jeff, my challenge to you still stands. Do a winner by winner comparison of black acting award winners, starting with Hattie McDaniels. Then come back here and tell us all how the acclaim this movie is getting --almost exclusively from WHITE people-- is not racist, and certainly not part of a pattern.
I think you'll get quite the education.

comment #59

JaySmack says ...

Mr Hulot. You are a racist.

Fell better now? Now you and Angie Harmon can hang out and tell yourselves how bold you are.

comment #60

bitplayer says ...

Mr. Hulot's post goes right to my earlier point. He listed lest than 10 directors working on a major level on the last 10 years. I disagree that most of those directors movies suck. I will say that MOST movies made suck and few are great. But the quality or lack there of is far more glaring when the list of filmmakers is small. Ya know a lot is written about the black audience but when it comes down to it blacks, asians and latinos go see movies starring white people, with few exceptions (Smith, Denzel), the reverse isn't true.

comment #61

VictorLazlo says ...

JaySmack, you area bit of an idiot. I'm black and I can't wait to see the movie. The black audiences that made Precious a hit last weekend also seemed to like it.

comment #62

VictorLazlo says ...

And furthermore, Jaysmack, why isn't the main character in PRecious "dignified". Have you seen the movie? Or are you bloviating as well?

comment #63

TheGK says ...

Haven't seen the film, but being a New Zealander, from what I've seen and heard it reminds me of Once Were Warriors.
Very few people cried racism, and those that did were largely ignored while the film was celebrated for what it was - a moving, powerful story dealing with alcohol abuse, incest, domestic violence, pride, culture and alienation.

BriOut is on point race not really being a factor in these kinds of films. If you see racism in a certain film, perhaps the problem isn't the film, but in the viewers interpretation.

comment #64

Travis Crabtree says ...

JaySmack..... holy shit!

That's a parody, right? You're not serious....

That's funny.

comment #65

Colin says ...

I certainly hope it's a parody. JaySmack claimed the characters in White Chicks were dignified.

Freeman has won an Academy Award for playing positive roles and so has Foxx(Ray) and nominated for another(Collateral).

I'm guessing you never saw Precious, but read Armond White's review while claiming that Norbit needed to be named Best Picture.

comment #66

dangovich says ...

"If you look at the complete sum total of all American films directed by Black filmmakers over the last fifteen years or so, a huge proportion of them SUCK."

Same is true for films directed by whites, Asians, Latinos, men, women, children.

comment #67

JaySmack says ...

Viktor, you are not a bit of an idiot, you're a full-fledged fool. If you're black you certainly don't talk like it. I can see you in the 1960's saying "I ain't got no problem sitting in the back of the bus. It gets there at the same time as the front. Yassa, massa!"
And speaking of idiots your pal Colin is --like I said-- one of those people so overcome with his addiction to negative portrayals of blacks that he acutally started hallucinating.
Because at no point did I say White Chicks was "dignified." Had you read what I said instead of letting your knee-jerk I must defend all things stupid response takeover you might have noticed that.

I know some people can't make it through their day without passioantely looking for a fight, but couldn't you have picked the side of the fight that features intelligence?

Or have you utterly failed to recognize that as well?

Both of you need to stop taking issue with the truth. Facts don't stop being facts just because you don't like them.

comment #68

Colin says ...

The only racist here is you Jay. I don't care what you believe, this portrayal is realistic, I know people like her. I lived in Baltimore. Truth is that you, Spike Lee, Armond White, and Anthony Smith are subverted racists against lower class African-Americans.

Before you called Victor an Uncle Tom you ignored the question: did you watch Precious? Obviously you didn't you're just an internet troll.