comment #1

Terry McCarty says ...

Presuming the exhibitor wouldn't be venting so hard if Disney hadn't been doing the "take it or leave it" stuff regarding the reduced theatrical-release window.

comment #2

Scott Nye says ...

Good for AMC. Theater owners, particularly the big boys, need to stand up to this kind of shit.

And man...I'd feel bad for Burton if it felt like he still had any creative energy left, but his work over the last several years just seems so tired. Big Fish was the last one with life in it, and even that's miles away from his best.

comment #3

Colin says ...

Crispin Glover. How does this dude still get work?

comment #4

Eloi Manning says ...

Colin: If fanboys ruled Hollywood, Crispin Glover would never be out of work. I had to laugh at the incredulous response to Ledger being hired as the Joker above fanboy favourite Glover (who was likely never even in Nolan or WB's thoughts). As soon as the film came out, Nolan and Ledger pretty much delivered the perfect reason why no Harry Knowles-types should ever be involved in a big-budget production.

It's fairly sad that Burton is now simply the go-to guy for kooky movies with scary trees. Edward Scissorhands and Ed Wood are two great movies from the '90s. His recent stuff has been diabolical. I was bored to tears during the supposed return-to-form of Sweeney Todd. Even Corpse Bride was gash.

comment #5

Fat Boy says ...

Tim Burton. How does this dude still get work?

comment #6

DarthCorleone says ...

This does not surprise me at all. I've been catching bad hollow vibes from the trailers. I hope I'm wrong.

comment #7

PCP says ...

Ruining a classic double punch by Lewis Carroll will be unforgivable to critics ... espeically those of England. And being what it is, any mishap, even tiny, will bring down the hammer on Burton.

This does not look good.

comment #8

actionman says ...

Crispin Glover. How does this dude still get work?

because he's funny and unique

Tim Burton. How does this dude still get work?

because he's brilliant

comment #9

Matthew Lucas says ...

Sounds like the exhibs are trying to sabotage it, because honestly I think it will do well whether they boycott or not. People want to see it and will seek it out. They're upset about Disney's choice to shrink the window. This sounds like sour grapes to me.

comment #10

MrTribeca says ...

Jeff, did you not see Burton's version of Planet Of The Apes?

I'm a fan of his but jeeze, was that a stinker...

comment #11

PCP says ...

Hey, it may do well ... but a lot of films that are absolute crap do well ... I mean, don't we all know here on this blog that $$$ does not mean good.

there is no sabotage here, it most likely is a mediocre adaption of a loved book by a legendary English author.

whenever such an adaptation is done, it usually gets double the critical harshness and sometimes it is not biased but simply legit critical pannings.

comment #12

Colin says ...

When people wanted Glover as the Joker I wanted AICN to get a massive virus and rid the film community of idiot talk-back once and for all.

@actionman
How funny was he in those Friedberg/Seltzer movies?

comment #13

Wrecktem says ...

This person is lying. Crispin Glover is barely in the movie. Exhibition in the U.S. is sky-high on this film after seeing it last week. This liar obviously has some sort of weird bone to pick.

Unlike what the liar says, Disney knows it has the goods with this one and that's why they're shrinking the distribution window. They know exhibition will inevitably cave because 1) the film is excellent and 2) it will make buckets of cash.

comment #14

shefhammer says ...

Biggest chain over here n the UK is boycotting it because of the window thing. Can't say i was looking forward to this - in fact I haven't enjoyed a Burton film since Ed Wood.

comment #15

PCP says ...

hey Tim Burton does seem to indulge sometimes and make some megalomaniac type of decisions.

Okay, so his wife and ex-wife have big boobs ... but casting them?

I see yes men all around him. My wife is the best, let us cast her in pivotal roles ... yes, yes, do so.

let us remake a film like planet of the apes ... yes, yes, do so.

mars attack ... all we need is greats like Jack in it ... yes, yes, that's all we need.

even the inventive and talented make mistakes on their own or due to their egos.

comment #16

berg says ...

as much as people pooh PLANET APES remake it did have a good twist at the ending (the chimp landing in the spacecraft) that was a unique take on the original twist (Heston discovering he's actually on earth), which was a unique twist on the book's trick ending (the narrator turns out to be an ape) ... another movie that improved the book's twist ending was the recent Tell No One

comment #17

PCP says ...

Berg, The Mist also added a twist that was arguably better than the novella's ending.

comment #18

CanCan says ...

Jefff,

I don`t know it it is me but I can`t see topics you created before "50 Year". This happens quite often with your site and it is extremly annoying. Is there a solution for that like changing some settings on explorer?? Thanks

comment #19

Gabriel says ...

Wrecktem - How exactly does shrinking a distribution window help a film that's supposed to play in 3D? I don't see families with children as the principle crowd to buy 3D BD players.

comment #20

actionman says ...

How funny was he in those Friedberg/Seltzer movies?

wouldn't know.

comment #21

Colin says ...

Exactly.

comment #22

Jonathan Spuij says ...

I toldya about the cinema chains refusing to show. Though the Brits seemed to have backed down and the chains in the Netherlands seem to be the most stubborn because Disney simply refuses to give in here.

Too bad it's that bad, but I never really looked forward to it.

comment #23

Wrecktem says ...

"Wrecktem - How exactly does shrinking a distribution window help a film that's supposed to play in 3D? I don't see families with children as the principle crowd to buy 3D BD players."

I'm sure you have your 3D release calendar handy. Please turn to the "March" and "April" sections of your calendar and answer your own question.

comment #24

MrTribeca says ...

No, Odeon has gone on record as saying that Alice isn't playing in their cinemas. And they're the biggest chain in the UK.

However, Thursday's premiere still goes ahead at the Odeon Leicester Square. Irony abounds.

comment #25

Wrecktem says ...

Sorry, Gabriel, that was very flippant. I should explain. Dreamworks "How To Train Your Dragon" is being released in 3D three weeks after Alice. "Clash of the Titans" follows literally one week later. Even without the windows controversy, these two films will kill Alice's chances of holding 3D screens, and that's only four weeks after the break. This doesn't even include and post-Oscar Avatar bookings.

Not every screen is outfitted with digital 3D. There is very limited real estate out there (for now) and distributors are getting squeezed. Naturally, this is EXHIBITION'S fault, because they haven't converted as many screens to digital 3D as they promised they would by this time.

comment #26

sumo-pop says ...

I like most of Burton's work, but Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was horrendous. I would have thought Burton to be the perfect director for a remake of the Roald Dahl classic, but he wasn't. I hope the same thing doesn't apply to Alice.

comment #27

Ray DeRousse says ...

Just another example of Burton's ruination of once-promising actor Johnny Depp.

http://www.obsessedwithfilm.com/movie-news/the-ruination-of-johnny-depp.php

comment #28

Yer says ...

Tim Burton's "style" got tired 10 years ago. I wish he would actually create something original instead of re-making, re-imagining or re-hashing old material.

comment #29

PCP says ...

Ray DeRousse, not that I agree completely with this article, but it is a very good point by the author in some senses and at least worthy for discussion.

thanks for the link.

comment #30

scooterzz says ...

fwiw--- saw this last thursday at the el cap and, while not exactly a 'stinker', everyone i spoke with after was pretty underwhelmed....and i will say that the 3-d effects were the least impressive of the last few 3-d films i've seen..... i'm a big fan of both burton and depp but 'alice' was a bit of a chore to sit through........

comment #31

Ray DeRousse says ...

@PCP- as the author in question, I thank you ;-)

comment #32

Travis Crabtree says ...

Jeez I wish I loved movies as much as actionman... that's not a dig... I REALLY do.... it must be so cool going to movies knowing that there's a 90% chance the film you're about to see will be "brilliant", "awesome" or a true "classic"....
I'm just bitter and cynical....

Wrecktem.... so I guess it's safe to assume you work for Disney?

Burton has always been one of those people I've been supposed to like.... He seems like someone I should like.... yet, I don't.... I loved "Ed Wood"... liked "Beetlejuice" and PeeWee ... but after that.... I remember being deemed a big grump because I thought "Batman" was a gaseous, over-blown mess....

Alice looks awful, so I'm not surprised that it (apparently) is...

comment #33

Eloi Manning says ...

DeRousse: Depp has a decent mix of "grown-up" movies and kids films on his slate in the next few years. Public Enemies, The Rum Diary, The Tourist and that Pancho Villa film for the adults. Alice, Pirates 4, and Lone Ranger for the family/kids.

People claim he's sold out or gone soft or whatever, but the kinds of weird little arty films he was making in the '90s just aren't being made at all anymore. He had to adapt, and you can't really blame him for wanting to cash in on his talent in his 40s. Not to mention that his blockbusters at least feature interesting performances. Some of them work (Oscar nom for Jack Sparrow), others don't (Wonka), but at least he changes it up a bit. He never slums his way through films like a lot of top-tier stars do.

comment #34

Gabriel says ...

Wrecktem - I don't mind the initial flippancy. The best I could have come up with was clearing out screens for "Toy Story 3D", as I forgot about "Titans" and hadn't heard of "Dragon". I guess in that respect the shorter window makes a little more sense....but still, if the 3D is critical to the movie, it's in big trouble.

comment #35

Wrecktem says ...

"Wrecktem.... so I guess it's safe to assume you work for Disney?"

Not safe to assume. Just an interested party.

comment #36

Snoop Marlo says ...

The only movie with any legs recently was 'Avatar'. 12 weeks is plenty for 'Alice'. It'll be dead within 5 weeks.

comment #37

dinovelvet says ...

Quick DeeZee moment - Kevin James. Vince Vaughn. Same movie. We have a Fatty Code Red!

http://www.deadline.com/hollywood/kevin-james-to-buddy-up-with-vince-vaughn-in-ron-howard-comedy/

comment #38

TL says ...

Let's be honest, nothing Tim Burton has done since "Ed Wood" has been worth much of a damn. "Mars Attacks" and "Sleepy Hollow" have good vibes, and the latter has amazing cinematography, but they go nowhere. "Planet of the Apes" was, at best, misguided. "Big Fish" was an agreeable mainstream entertainment, but not much more. "Sweeney Todd" was a pale adaptation of its source material (the best parts of which didn't even make it into the picture). "Charlie" and now "Alice" look like they were made to simply throw elaborate sums of money at production and costume designers.

I like Burton, and want to like his films, but at this point, he's made more lousy films than good.

comment #39

Dan Geiser says ...

So Crispin Glover is listed 4th in the credits...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1014759/

but he is barely in the movie?

comment #40

DeeZee says ...

"...Burton is no chump, he knows what he's doing."

That's what people probably said about Planet of the Apes once. Anyway, I hope to catch Alice at the El Capitan sometime, if it's not sold out by then.

Scott: "Theater owners, particularly the big boys, need to stand up to this kind of shit."

Why? So they can continue to rape me up the ass by charging me $13 for Jackass 3? Fuck their bottom lines. I can't wait until that shit's got same-day-and-date streaming and rentals.

Eloi: I dug Todd, but that's only because it had more balls than anything he's done since Batman Returns.

Travis: Didn't think much of PeeWee, but I thought Batman was awesome, at the time. Though, in retrospect, that's only because it stood out from all the Rambo and Indy clones of that era which seemed to be more about blowing shit up on a lower budget than about the plot. Now, the former type of movie's a rarity, and the latter's a dime a dozen, and I'm sick of the latter.

comment #41

Wrecktem says ...

Dan Geiser, he's physically in the movie a lot, but he's merely the side kick to the villain. Really doesn't have that many lines, nor are his line readings particularly egregious. His main job is to sneer and chase.

comment #42

pmn says ...

Tim Burton is a set designer masquerading as a movie director. How he managed to spit out a movie as good as Ed Wood is beyond me. It's been torture sitting through pretty much everything he's made since then.

comment #43

Bobby Cooper Superior says ...

I think when Di Novi and Burton parted ways after Ed Wood bombed he never found another handler with the right sensibilities for polishing his projects. The Zanucks seem to favor bigger, bigger, and $$$BIGGER$$$ as opposed to encouraging that touch of personal authenticity found in Burton's films from Pee Wee to Ed Wood.

comment #44

kingofnails says ...

Honestly, this thing has had waves of stink emanating off it for a while. I remember seeing the trailer, and feeling like I could hear Tim Burton's voice in my head: "Alice In Wonderland? Oh yeah, I could see me directing that! How much do I get paid? We'll shoot it on green screen; it'll look really cool. How much do I get paid again? We'll get Johnny to play the Mad Hatter. It'll be another one of his wacky performances. How much do I get paid again? And could you pass the red wine?"

comment #45

LexG says ...

And here I thought his PLANET OF THE APES was-- no joking, not trying to be contrarian-- Burton's best movie. Probably because it's the "least" Burton, it's in widescreen, it's not shot through fucking charcoal, and it isn't two hours of off-putting clown freaks on a clunky, obvious set staring into a fish-eye lens. After that, Ed Wood and Sleepy Hollow are very good-- Ed Wood in particular, but honest question? Do people REWATCH Ed Wood?

Much as film geeks talk it up, I haven't seen one frame of it since opening weekend '94, and if you put me on a desert island with four DVDs and the other three were Date Movie, Meet the Spartans and Just My Luck, I'd STILL probably put off watching Burton's "masterpiece" for six, eight months.

I didn't even bother with Sweeny Todd... Bonham Carter looks EMBARRASSING AS HELL in this. How can ANY of you guys HONESTLY look at that HBC character and NOT flinch, bristle, vomit, run SCREAMING? It makes Nanny McPhee look like Bar Rafaeli.

comment #46

Alboone says ...

OMG I hope this isn't true.

comment #47

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

"I didn't even bother with Sweeny Todd... Bonham Carter looks EMBARRASSING AS HELL in this."

Yes. But -- seemingly against all odds -- she was weirdly-grungy-sexy cougar-iffic in Fight Club. I am Jack's smirking boner. You know it to be true. BOW.

comment #48

Ray DeRousse says ...

@ LexG - Are you kidding????

I rewatch ED WOOD probably once or twice a year. An amazing film ... gorgeous cinematography, an actual complete screenplay ( a Burton rarity), a terrific Depp performance, and a genius-level performance from Landau as Lugosi. One of my favorite "film about filmmaking" movies ever.

Watch it again. I bet it's changed for you.

comment #49

jse33 says ...

Another thing that doesn't get me excited for this film is every single time I see Depp as the mad hatter, I think it's Madonna. Every...single...time.

comment #50

Ray DeRousse says ...

@ Eloi Manning - I really didn't like the Sparrow performance that much. I can see why it caught everyone's fancy, but it was strangely one-note considering it spanned three movies.

I was quite disappointed in Depp's PUBLIC ENEMIES performance. He felt rigid, cold, lost. It was as if Depp forgot how to act normal after years of prosthetics, makeup, and special effects.

Again, thanks Burton!

comment #51

THE MovieBob says ...

This has looked liked a misfire from the moment the "story" trailers started to hit.

The whole thing looks like something Neil Gaiman or Alan Moore would do as a parody of bad revisionism - i.e. "how easily can you turn ______ into a formula heroes-journey good vs evil toyline-ready fantasy action piece" - but without the irony. For fuck's sake, Alice has a suit of armor! The Mad Hatter is wielding a BROADSWORD.

I don't even get to see the damn thing until next week, but sight-unseen I can already tell you that the Queen of Hearts will have some endless army of Storm Troopers/Orcs/Puttys/whatever, that most of Carroll's bestiary will turn up as "minibosses," that Glover is "The Darth Maul," etc.

comment #52

PrisonJake says ...

This has looked putrid from the get-go, probably because it has the exact same look as 'Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.'

I hope Phantom Menace Reviewer Guy takes a shot at it in the near future.

comment #53

Zach says ...

I could have called this one. The trailer paints it as all spectacle, no soul. Burton hasn't made a good film since Big Fish. Okay, maybe Sweeny Todd, but for production design only; the music was excruciating. Ed Wood is best though, by far. "Karloff did not deserve to smell my shit!" You just can't beat it.

comment #54

Geoff says ...

LexG, you are dead-on - Planet of the Apes is actually kind of underrated because it's probably the least Burton-ish of the batch. Not a bad movie - the effects are pretty cool, love the Heston cameo, and great work by a really good cast - Bonham-Carter, Roth, Giamatti all do very good work.

Honestly, I have found most of his films a chore to sit through - overlong, way too much production design, etc. My favorite film of his is actually Batman Returns - I can watch it again and again. Yeah, it's overlong just like the others, but a lot of creepy fun - Walken and DeVito are just a kick to watch and I'll say it - Pfeiffer's work as Catwoman is one of the best female performances of the past 20 years - PFEIFFER POWER

comment #55

Carl Kolchak says ...

I can beat you all!!! I have found EVERYBODY'S FILMS torture to sit through for the last thirty years....i hate all films....I'm so high brow I find it impossible to like anything!!!!!

comment #56

mattn says ...

I don't see how this is going to top the video for Tom Petty's "Don't Come Around Here No More."

comment #57

Chase Kahn says ...

Am I the only one who hates BATMAN RETURNS? It was like Gotham was turned into a snowy, frosted-over FAO Schwartz.

comment #58

Baron Munchausen-by-Proxy says ...

I heartily enjoy Burton, but not uncritically; his last two remakes left me cold. I loved Todd, though I don't like many musicals, and I've rewatched Big Fish a couple times (once with Dad - recommended)

But, for the record, come on, PCP:

"hey Tim Burton does seem to indulge sometimes and make some megalomaniac type of decisions.
Okay, so his wife and ex-wife have big boobs ... but casting them?
I see yes men all around him. My wife is the best, let us cast her in pivotal roles ... yes, yes, do so.
let us remake a film like planet of the apes ... yes, yes, do so.
mars attack ... all we need is greats like Jack in it ... yes, yes, that's all we need.
even the inventive and talented make mistakes on their own or due to their egos."

Megalomaniac?!?

Ex-wife Lisa has big boobs - but she was hardly cast in any "pivotal roles". Her biggest roles, Hollow & Ed Wood, required virtually no verbal acting and were largely dependent on her looks and ability to hold a pose. She was perfect in each, and the casting was 'right'.

Wife HBC was a great actress preceding her involvement with Burton, remains one during it (whether he directs her or not), and, presumably will continue to be one after it ends. She's been great in each role in his films since - in which one has she disappointed?

I wouldn't begrudge the guy the perfect opportunity to keep his family intact when he shoots in the UK. And its not like there's any tradition *against* director/leading lady couples - some are even advantageous. Edwards brought out some of Andrews' best comic performances, as did Brooks with Bancroft. (Jon & Bo can be the other end of the scale.)

POTA was Zanuck's baby - he brought it to and sold Burton on it.

(And, Berg: Burton did use the same "evolved apes now ruling same modern civilization he left" ending as Boulle's novel... and the conceit of the novel's wraparound segments' ape-narrator isn't really translatable to film, so the double-twist of the novel's reveal really *had* to go)

Mars Attacks was one of his 'one for me' projects all the way, and was as goofy as it was always developed to be. Jack obviously much enjoyed his Batman experience with Burton, and he grabbed the opportunity to ham it up in a comedy-dual-role... because that was perfect for the intended tone of the film. Casting Jack made the greenlight for his risky, silly film ("who would ever develop a film from a stupid kids' fad?") secure.

What the heck is so megalomaniacal or ego-driven-mistaken about *any* of the above? Seems like a typical and practical director at work.

comment #59

baboo says ...

Saw it. No stink at all.

comment #60

scooterzz says ...

so, here's a question i have no idea how to answer: during the pr. conf. for 'alice', burton said he shot the film in 2-d with the idea of converting it to 3-d based on his experience converting 'nightmare'.....i didn't have a prob with the 'nightmare' conversion but found the 3-d lacking in 'alice'...... could this have been because of the 2-d original?..... actual question......anybody?

comment #61

Terry McCarty says ...

Trying to figure out the love here for BIG FISH. With that one, it seemed like Richard Zanuck must have urged Burton to take it on as a make-nice-with-Oscar project.

comment #62

Terry McCarty says ...

Chase Kahn wrote:
Am I the only one who hates BATMAN RETURNS? It was like Gotham was turned into a snowy, frosted-over FAO Schwartz.

Didn't hate it, but thought Burton seemed to be bored with the idea of doing another BATMAN film and woke up only for the Penguin and Catwoman scenes.

comment #63

Terry McCarty says ...

Having seen SHUTTER ISLAND, I think Burton should do a Hammer Frankenstein homage with Elias Koteas as the creature and Sam Neill in the Cushing Baron von Frankenstein role.

comment #64

Markj74 says ...

Got to agree with TL, Ed Wood was Burton's last good movie, and Mars Attacks! and Sleepy Hollow had some interesting visuals and gags.

Everything since then has been terrible, including Big Fish - every time I think of that film I hear Ewan McGregor's horrendous American accent, one of the great crimes against cinema.

Still Burton had a pretty good run early in his career, Pee-Wee, Beetlejuice, Batman, Edward Scissorhands, Batman Returns and Ed Wood are all terrific pictures.

comment #65

Edwardo72 says ...

This has been coming - Ed Wood aside, can't think of a single film of his I'd go back too. Everyone always coos about his visual eye, blah blah. Well a movie needs more tha that. I also get tired having to explain to people that Tim Burton did not direct Coraline or 9 or Nightmare Before Xmas!

I was looking at the poster for Alice before and Depp does look like Madonna, so whoever said that in this thread, is spot on.

comment #66

Gordn27 says ...

"Ed Wood in particular, but honest question? Do people REWATCH Ed Wood?"

Bill Murray alone makes it infinitely rewatchable, but every time I watch it, I have a new favorite Depp line.

Well, okay, second favorite; my favorite will always be:
"Do you know anything at all about making a motion picture?"
"Well, I like to think so!"

comment #67

Eloi Manning says ...

Ed Wood is very rewatchable.

comment #68

CitizenKanedforChewingGum says ...

Big Burton apologist, but even I thought Big Fish stunk pretty bad. Then again, opinions on his work post-Ed Wood -- which pretty much everyone rightly agrees is his masterpiece -- really run the gamut of critical opinion, as this comment section can attest to.

My personal Burton faves over the last 15 years? Mars Attacks (high camp/guilty pleasure), Sleepy Hollow (almost entirely for the throwback Hammer atmosphere of the thing), and Sweeney Todd (liked some of the abstract ways it messed with the "traditions" of the musical genre -- songs spoken not sung, trying to suck the inherent joy out of the vocal performances -- although I'm sure these things are much more attributable to the original play than Burton himself).

comment #69

Harmonica says ...

Watch the trailer three times in a row and then tell me you're surprised about this article. I dare ya.

I am not surprised at all, in fact, this is the exact response I expected. The trailer was absolutely awful, one of the worst trailers I saw last year. And Burton's been doing crap since 2004. His last great film was Big Fish.

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Another thing that doesn't get me excited for this film is every single time I see Depp as the mad hatter, I think it's Madonna.
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comment #74

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This does not surprise me at all. I've been catching bad hollow vibes from the trailers. I hope I'm wrong.

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