De-Ball Expandables?

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"The reason for that recent Expendables trailer selling cast and nothing else," a guy tells me, "is the studio and Sylvester Stallone are still grappling with whether to go with an R-rated or PG-13 version. Obviously there would be very different tones in the campaign if it's the former. I hope they go with the R-rated version, but apparently there's pressure in the marketplace not to."

If Lionsgate and Stallone are even toying with the possibility of going with a PG-13 version of The Expendables, then I don't know what to say to them. It would be stunningly, breathtakingly stupid of them to put out a version that tones down the violence and the gore. It's such a pathetic notion that I'm not going to sully this website by discussing it further.

For what it's worth, the guy says he's hearing that "the film works and is fun...and that Stallone and Stratham have wonderful chemistry." I don't buy a word of that! Not a word!

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Posted by Jeffrey Wells on June 9, 2010 at 1:22 PM

comment #1

Snoop Marlo says ...

If the movie studios banned steroids like baseball did, would Stallone have a whiff of a career at this point?

Posted by Snoop Marlo at June 9, 2010 1:46 PM

comment #2

dinovelvet says ...

Interesting, as there's an article on the front page of AICN today in which Stallone himself refers to The Expendables as a "crazy hard R"

Posted by dinovelvet at June 9, 2010 1:52 PM

comment #3

Sabina E says ...

PG-13 is the death of it all.

Posted by Sabina E at June 9, 2010 1:53 PM

comment #4

Krazy Eyes says ...

At least if they went with PG-13 it would save me $10 and 90 minutes of my life.

Posted by Krazy Eyes at June 9, 2010 1:53 PM

comment #5

Rothchild says ...

It was shot to be PG-13 without any gore or excessive squib hits. If the final version is R, there's just going to be CG blood here and there and maybe some ADR "fucks" like the "unrated cut" of Live Free or Die Hard.

Posted by Rothchild at June 9, 2010 1:58 PM

comment #6

Josh Massey says ...

The official website has featured an R-rating for about a week now.

Posted by Josh Massey at June 9, 2010 2:03 PM

comment #7

DarthCorleone says ...

PG-13 equals I'm not going. What's the point of targeting under-17s with this particular group of actors? Isn't this supposed to be nostalgia for the 80s and early 90s hard-R action flicks? What a crock.

Posted by DarthCorleone at June 9, 2010 2:05 PM

comment #8

Josh Massey says ...

Here it is. Put your cursor over the "hover for legal" at the bottom.

And I can't get over how horrible the Photoshop is for Willis and Rourke.

Posted by Josh Massey at June 9, 2010 2:05 PM

comment #9

a1 says ...

For this kind of movie, the idea that the studio is thinking it's even possible to make a PG-13 movie out of the footage they have is a bad sign all by itself.

Posted by a1 at June 9, 2010 2:10 PM

comment #10

Eloi Wrath says ...

I'm probably being hypocritical here, as I'm sure I've done it myself before, but all this talk of "bad signs" and "bad buzz" is almost always just imaginary bullshit. I've lost track of the number of movies that had "troubled shoots" or "bad buzz" circling them, only to turn out completely fine. I think industry folks like to act as if they're ahead of the game and can smell a bomb, but predictions of a movie's quality and/or box office potential are almost always wrong.

Posted by Eloi Wrath at June 9, 2010 2:15 PM

comment #11

Savage Brit says ...

Just like LIVE FREE OR DIE HARD, they're now testing two versions of THE EXPENDABLES so anything can happen.

Posted by Savage Brit at June 9, 2010 2:19 PM

comment #12

Science Adventure says ...

The fact that they could so easily get it to a PG-13 rating doesn't bode well. This should be wall to wall ass-kicking, not something where you cut out a few cusses and trim some blood to get the kids.

Although, I'm not sure why people are excited about this to begin with. I love Rocky 4 as much as anyone, but all the footage released so far as looked terrible.

Posted by Science Adventure at June 9, 2010 2:26 PM

comment #13

Sabina E says ...

excuse me if i'm wrong, but weren't PG-13 movies in the 1980s much more liberal with cussing words, sex, and nudity?

Posted by Sabina E at June 9, 2010 2:28 PM

comment #14

Sabina E says ...

Eloi: exactly. one such example was AVATAR. People were convinced it was going to flop, and well, look what happened.

Posted by Sabina E at June 9, 2010 2:29 PM

comment #15

Eloi Wrath says ...

DBTP: Yeah, that's the obvious example. But even the other day there was some "insider report" about the Green Hornet being terrible and needing reshoots, etc. Nobody confirmed it. Just some movie site says something sucks and it immediately becomes a "difficult production".

Posted by Eloi Wrath at June 9, 2010 2:43 PM

comment #16

Holy Spokes says ...

Alright, Wells, but ease off the yelling.

Posted by Holy Spokes at June 9, 2010 2:54 PM

comment #17

TheCahuengaKid says ...

Remember all the "inside" reports of TITANIC being "in trouble" when it's release was pushed back 6 months for an eventual December debut in 1997? Yeah, right...

Posted by TheCahuengaKid at June 9, 2010 2:56 PM

comment #18

lazespud says ...

Jesus. The fact that it would even be possible to cut it to pg-13 is not a good sign. The single redeeming feature (and it's a GREAT feature), of his Rambo movie from two years ago is how crazy out-of-control violent it was. The movie was clearly influenced by internet videos of people getting blown to bits by 50 cal guns in Iraq etc; in many ways it was the most deliriously violent movie ever.

Without that element, this new movie would clearly suck. Come on, there is NO ONE under 35 that wants to see this thing. The most current of the stars, Statham, maybe appeals to the 25 year old set. But that's it.

Posted by lazespud at June 9, 2010 2:58 PM

comment #19

LexG says ...

Stallone should wear an ATAC hat in this and go "Come on, bad-ass.... Come on, bad-ass" and "You're FUCKIN; DEAD!" and carry around a chicken-scratched pencil drawing of a dude who looks absolutely nothing like the guy he and Billy Dee are tasked with finding.

DEKE DA SILVA POWER.

Posted by LexG at June 9, 2010 3:00 PM

comment #20

LexG says ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODhzaTYgnUg&feature=related

Posted by LexG at June 9, 2010 3:07 PM

comment #21

TimDG says ...

You're not wrong, DeafBrown. See Beastmaster, Sheena, The Woman In Red, Sixteen Candles, et al.
I think the general rule in the 80's was you were allowed one "fuck" in a PG-13 as long as it didn't refer to the sex act.

Posted by TimDG at June 9, 2010 3:09 PM

comment #22

Alboone says ...

Why not release both versions?

Posted by Alboone at June 9, 2010 3:14 PM

comment #23

Krillian says ...

Violence-wise you can go pretty far in PG-13, thx to the LOTR beheadings. Cussin'-wise you might be able to get away with two F-words, but only movies like The American President can have three F-words and still get a PG-13. Pretty Woman had 3 F-words and got an R. You can still flash a little nudity and keep a PG-13. Nuns on the Run probably has the most nudity for a movie that kept a PG-13

Posted by Krillian at June 9, 2010 3:25 PM

comment #24

Jeffmc2000 says ...

The Matrix movies were all R rated, for no reason in particular except that they were full of kung fu. You never know what's going to put your movie over.

Posted by Jeffmc2000 at June 9, 2010 3:38 PM

comment #25

TimDG says ...

I think it was all the bullets hitting bodies that earned the Matrix movies their R. All the flesh-piercing and bone-crushing in Daredevil got a PG-13, but I don't recall anyone getting shot to death in that film.

Posted by TimDG at June 9, 2010 4:02 PM

comment #26

lawnorder says ...

I hate everything the PG-13 rating stands for - the castrating of most adult entertainment to make it accessible to teenagers. HOWEVER... I totally get it from the studios point of view... because all the fanboys who bemoan all new action movies being rated PG-13 never turn up to the theater to support R-rated films on the opening (and subsequent) weekends. Case in point (although it wasn't action) is "Splice" last weekend. This has been going on for years! The reason adults don't have adult movies to see in theaters - and across all genres - is that they don't go. They wait to rent everything on Netflix. Face it, the R-rated action movie and hard R thriller and drama does not have a constituency anymore that represents them at the box office.

Sad but true. Downloading is also a problem. I'm having a hard time naming one R rated action film that broke a hundred million in the last five years, let along 50 mill. Maybe "Rambo" for the 50 (caliber), but I can't seriously come up with a hundred mill action film - I guess the "Kill Bills" count as one film (but that was more than 5 years ago) and "Inglorious Basterds..." And "Wanted"... Not sure what else. It completely sucks to be a filmmaker and an audience member in these shitty times. Man, I remember when every Stallone/Willis/Schwarzenegger/Norris/Seagal/Keanu Reeves, etc. flick was R-rated. There's no way "Point Break" would be R today. Or the original "Speed." Or "Cliffhanger..." Sad times.

Posted by lawnorder at June 9, 2010 4:28 PM

comment #27

actionman says ...

"It was shot to be PG-13 without any gore or excessive squib hits. If the final version is R, there's just going to be CG blood here and there and maybe some ADR "fucks" like the "unrated cut" of Live Free or Die Hard."

if this truly is the case, then shame on everyone involved with the making of this film

Posted by actionman at June 9, 2010 4:55 PM

comment #28

CitizenKanedForPostingThoughts says ...

"I've lost track of the number of movies that had "troubled shoots" or "bad buzz" circling them, only to turn out completely fine."

And I've lost track of the number of movies that have had "bad buzz" circling them that indeed did turn out to be total dogshit.

Still one of the most reliable barometers of stinkers? A lack of critics' screenings for a film before wide release.

Also, the difference between a movie having a "troubled shoot" during production, and "bad buzz" -- presumably after it's been released -- is huge, and you're not doing anyone favors by lopping those two disparate terms together. Although -- to tangentially support your point -- I suppose there is some carry-over with some films that have had publicly troubled shoots that ended up being anywhere from great (Eyes Wide Shut), to just fine (Waterworld).

I think the Avatar thing was different. It didn't seem to have anything to do with a troubled production (other than the fact that it was super-fucking-expensive), or even bad word-of-mouth from people who had seen it (with people that had actually seen it, the general consensus was pretty overwhelming positive). No, I think it was more of a minority response from snarky, ironic internet nerds who didn't like the general tone of earnestness (and for some reason, all the "blue") found in the trailers.

I'm not convinced there was really any "bad buzz" at all, it was just an illusion formed and perpetuated by a very small percentage of people who spend most (or all) of their time online who wanted something to rail against. Avatar was a prime target because it had a lot of hype, cost a fortune, was made by one of the most financially successful filmmakers in the world, and -- perhaps the worst offense of them all -- it looked emotionally sincere.

I think there might have also an element of Titanic backlash, but interestingly enough, in waiting so long between features, I think Cameron probably managed to avoid most of that. Most of the people that tended to hate Titanic the most were guys at the end of high school or the beginning of college when it was in release from '97-'98. I think most of the people from that age range that still aggressively follow cinema online do it mostly from a place of pure passion -- they've either made it their career, or at least a very serious hobby. Few and far between are the dudes who haven't lost a single ounce for bitterness for that film twelve years later (yes, I'm looking at you, D.Z.).

Posted by CitizenKanedForPostingThoughts at June 9, 2010 5:38 PM

comment #29

CitizenKanedForPostingThoughts says ...

lawnorder --

I know it probably belongs more to a "comic book" genre than that of the "action" one, but what about Watchmen last year?

Shutter Island certainly wasn't action, but it was decidedly "adult entertainment" (well, apart from the plot silliness, anyway) that managed to crack $100 million. And Public Enemies came damn close. But both of those were obviously helped by a very strong director pedigree.

Book of Eli made $94 earlier this year. That may be the best 2010 example I can come up with.

I think your general theory is sound, though. Adults simply do not drive the profits for first-run releases. I'm not sure they ever did, but there never even seemed to be a question of the MPAA ratings of Die Hard, Terminator, Predator etc. back in the day. And now 20 years later, we're getting PG-13 sequels of these (well, hopefully not for the latter...if there's one thing I inherently trust about Rodriguez, it's his awesomely stubborn insistence to push hard-R flicks through the Hollywood meat-grinder).

Posted by CitizenKanedForPostingThoughts at June 9, 2010 5:55 PM

comment #30

lawnorder says ...

CitizenKaned...

"Shutter Island" was certainly helped along by the Scorese imprimatur, as was "The Departed." "Watchmen" should have made much more, given the huge budget and pedigree of the source material - but still admirable that it was allowed to be R.

Again, "Public Enemies" had Mann and Johnny Depp (the world's second biggest star - or is he number 1?) In my opinion, "Public Enemies" was a huge disappointment and bad buzz kept that one from doing better.

A perfect example of the non-supported cool R-rated action/comic book/subversive type of movie that had pretty good reviews and Geek interest, but failed - was KICK-ASS. Lionsgate threw a ton of marketing at it; the fanboy sites were creaming over it... and at the end of the day, it didn't pass 50 mill in the U.S. The film also rates a very high 8.3 on IMDB and has made it into the top 250. That tells me something is very out of whack. The DVD should be spectacularly profitable, though. But, still, when something like KICK-ASS disappoints, every studio/financier in the business goes, "...but KICK-ASS was a theatrical bust (taking into account pick-up and marketing costs)..."

I honestly can't blame the studios for not making the effort or taking the occasional chance - but you can be damn sure that if this was the 80s or early 90s, Chris Nolan's "Inception" would be going out with an R-rating. The theatrical R only exists now for raunchy comedy and low budget indie (which is becoming less and less).

Posted by lawnorder at June 9, 2010 6:13 PM

comment #31

Savage Brit says ...

I think the lukewarm response to KICK ASS is the reason Lionsgate is possibly leaning towards a PG-13 version.

Posted by Savage Brit at June 9, 2010 7:23 PM

comment #32

Eloi Wrath says ...

"I think the general rule in the 80's was you were allowed one "fuck" in a PG-13 as long as it didn't refer to the sex act."

A couple of movies in the '90s had the same thing, too. I can't remember specific titles apart from Armageddon, in which Billy Bob Thornton says "fuck!" once in a moment of dramatic tension. But then again, Titanic got away with tits in a PG-13.

Posted by Eloi Wrath at June 9, 2010 7:29 PM

comment #33

Eloi Wrath says ...

Public Enemies just cost too damn much. So did Green Zone and Funny People. It was the ridiculous expectations that led to them being considered flops. It's like Robin Hood now. All decent films to varying degrees (PE, in particular, is excellent, and I love FP), just ludicrously budgeted by an ambitious but seemingly naive Universal management team. I don't think it was "bad buzz" as much as it was overambitious goals.

Posted by Eloi Wrath at June 9, 2010 7:35 PM

comment #34

Eloi Wrath says ...

Off-topic, kind of - but how in the Christ do AICN get away with posting literally three or four day old stories in this day and age? Considering their audience is entirely composed of the internet savvy media-whores, how do they sustain their business model when they break no news and can't even copy and paste until four days after the fact.

Posted by Eloi Wrath at June 9, 2010 7:38 PM

comment #35

berg says ...

"Suck ... pump"

Posted by berg at June 9, 2010 7:38 PM

comment #36

LexG says ...

Haven't visited AICN on a regular basis in a number of years; Used to just to read McWeeny, and I like some of the other guys too, but once Drew left, stopped checking in. Is Harry down to actually reviewing-- what-- 8, 10 movies a year now? I'd all but guarantee if I went there now, on the left side of the page they'd still have "Harry Loves Nightmare on Elm St!!!!" from two months ago, and maybe ONE review since.

None of my business, but is getting out and about just not as easy for Knowles anymore? For all I know, he's as spry as Mitch Gaylord these days, but I've read rumors for seemingly a DECADE now that make it sound like the guy doesn't get around like he used to. Who knows... He's got everyone in the world I idolize on speed-dial, so not like I can bag on the guy.

Or maybe he just DOES go to movies regularly, but figures why bother with the review. NO ONE on AICN wants to hear about anything but fanboys shit anyway... Actually kind of a shame since, despite his TERRIBLE writing, HK has a pretty wide range of knowledge and diverse cinematic interests. But anything other than Peter Parker News!!! plays to crickets there.

Posted by LexG at June 9, 2010 7:58 PM

comment #37

BurmaShave says ...

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comment #38

BurmaShave says ...

Seriously, why can't the next project in his renaissance be NIGHTHAWKS 2.

Posted by BurmaShave at June 9, 2010 8:17 PM

comment #39

Dance Commander says ...

PG-13 = Fuck You! I want balls, bullets and brain matter from my ass stupid Stallone movie. Taming the beast so that the Twilight loving, tweener crowd can attend? If they do that whatever minor claim to fame this crap is reaching for is flushed down the cinematic toilet forever.

Posted by Dance Commander at June 9, 2010 9:06 PM

comment #40

DeeZee says ...

What the hell?! The 80s action fans didn't fuck up a comic book movie adaptation's prospects, by making its target audience unable to see it. Why the hell should they have to pay for LG's mismarketing of Kick-Ass with a PG-13 Expendables?! Besides, if those fucks have no problem with Saw being R, then Expendables should stay the same.

Eloi: Oh, I totally believe Green Hornet sucks, because Rogen was allowed to make the creative decisions on it, rather than Stephen Chow.

Kane: Watchmen broke even at best. And the only reason it got an R was because WB thought it could get another Sin City/300 success story out of it. Of course, those films had cheaper budgets.
Shutter Island did as well as it did, because of the pedigree attached to it, and because the marketing campaign emphasized the horror-thriller aspects of it. Also, Book of Eli cost more than it made, even though it looked cheaper than that.

lawn: Um, no one outside of the people who own the comics knows about Watchmen. Why did anyone expect that to be a big hit? Yeah, it had cool ads, but it generally flew over most people's heads like Dark City. And what's out of whack on Kick-Ass was the fanboy hype. It only had one name star, and he was a fucking supporting character. What exactly did LG expect with that one? As for Inception, it'd only get an R, if they kept it under $50 million.

Posted by DeeZee at June 9, 2010 9:35 PM

comment #41

CitizenKanedForPostingThoughts says ...

You know, oftentimes I see a parade of links by DZ and it makes me wonder why he does that. And then he makes a rare post without any links and I almost long for the spam.

Take this bon mot, for example:

"As for Inception, it'd only get an R, if they kept it under $50 million."

Does this make sense to anyone in the history of the world?

Posted by CitizenKanedForPostingThoughts at June 9, 2010 10:17 PM

comment #42

DeeZee says ...

Kane: Makes perfect sense. The bigger the budget, the more likely studios want to keep a film PG-13. See Robin Hood.

Posted by DeeZee at June 9, 2010 10:30 PM

comment #43

CitizenKanedForPostingThoughts says ...

You're full of shit, even by Nolan standards alone.

See The Prestige.

Some movies are just meant to be PG-13.

Posted by CitizenKanedForPostingThoughts at June 9, 2010 10:33 PM

comment #44

DeeZee says ...

Kane: "Some movies are just meant to be PG-13."

TDK wasn't one of 'em.

Posted by DeeZee at June 10, 2010 12:15 AM

comment #45

Chinaski94 says ...

Kane: "Some movies are just meant to be PG-13."

TDK wasn't one of 'em. "

Yeah it was. Why do you feel differently? It was a comic book movie that wanted to appeal to a wide audience.

I usually prefer an R rating to a PG-13, but TDK was great the way it was.

Posted by Chinaski94 at June 10, 2010 12:38 AM

comment #46

Chinaski94 says ...

Oh, and IM2 has now topped your prediction. I give you full credit for being close for once, but still a loss.

Posted by Chinaski94 at June 10, 2010 12:39 AM

comment #47

DeeZee says ...

China: "Why do you feel differently?"

'Cus you just know he was holding back. Also, IM 2's take is only slightly higher than my guess, so that's just petty. Now, if it beat it by at least $10 mil, then that'd be a different story.

Posted by DeeZee at June 10, 2010 3:43 AM

comment #48

longrunner says ...

How come this kind of movie is okay with you guys but Sex in the City isn't? Same corny shit, different gender audience. (Incidentally, you couldn't pay me to see either.)

Posted by longrunner at June 10, 2010 6:35 AM

comment #49

CitizenKanedForPostingThoughts says ...

"Now, if it beat it by at least $10 mil, then that'd be a different story."

Hold your horses now. It's still in first-run here -- at least for another full week -- and I assume the same is true most other places.

Posted by CitizenKanedForPostingThoughts at June 10, 2010 7:05 AM

comment #50

DeeZee says ...

long: Expendables isn't two and a half hours of dudes playing dress-up. Top Gun's a better example of a guy equivalent to SATC 2.

Posted by DeeZee at June 10, 2010 6:57 PM

comment #51

Chinaski94 says ...

"Also, IM 2's take is only slightly higher than my guess, so that's just petty."

You picked the under on 580 million. It's now over. Which makes you wrong.

" Now, if it beat it by at least $10 mil, then that'd be a different story."

It's still playing in theaters.

"Expendables isn't two and a half hours of dudes playing dress-up. Top Gun's a better example of a guy equivalent to SATC 2."

No, Entourage is the male equivalent to Sex in the City. Except Entourage, in the early seasons anyway, was entertaining.

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Chinaski94 says ...

"Now, if it beat it by at least $10 mil, then that'd be a different story. "

9 million and change over your prediction now.

By your own word, this is a loss now.

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