comment #1

The Diesel says ...

I actually think the market is making a call on the leadership of President Obama and their expectations of his performance leading into 2012.

comment #2

Edward says ...

It's too easy to blame all this on Obama. It's a worldwide mess. Maybe our President hasn't done all that he could, but could anyone else have done better, considering the Congress he has to deal with?

comment #3

Hollis Mulwray says ...

The Democrats had a majority in the House and Senate and didn't pass any deficeit reducing tax legislation . Time to face the fact that Obama has no solutions, only blame.

comment #4

Chicago48 says ...

This is a bunch of nothing. I'm sitting at work and nobody -- nobody is talking about the DOW or the debt. Nobody cares about this stuff. We go to work everyday, do our job, pay our bills. We haven't had a 401K for years, it's now the 201K. Nobody where I work is jumping up and down and throwing themselves out of windows. This effects the rich, not the working man. The Mexican who lost $8Billion is the one this effects. And all this panic - please! It is overexaggerated by the media.

comment #5

coxcable says ...

Oh look.

Wall Street wants us to pity it.

Nice try.

comment #6

sutterkane says ...

The downgrade of the US credit rating has a ripple effect across the entire world - holding it hostage in a game of chicken over the tax rates for millionaires and corporations, and really anyone's tax rate (even mine), is MADNESS. Jeff is absolutely right about this, and I don't think people like Cantor really understood the ramifications of what they were doing. If they did, then the best comparison is Gen. Jack Ripper, with Mandrake standing in for every rational person trying to talk sense to them.

comment #7

Mark says ...

"I actually think the market is making a call on the leadership of President Obama and their expectations of his performance leading into 2012. "

Well I just texted the market, and after a slight delay, it responded, "Diesel + congress=fn idiots. tea bagRs can't address debt in rationale way. label money hoarders as job creators, and refuse to increase revenue, but giddily delete any public sector job. Economy is a mess & being exacerbated by children"

comment #8

Chicago48 says ...

I just read that Rick Perry is running for President....if this is the best the Republicans have, god help us.

comment #9

Chicago48 says ...

They're rioting over in England for the very reason that we're doing: They cut spending and laid off hundreds, maybe thousands of people. You don't think that couldn't happen here?

comment #10

Peterzee says ...

I'd hope it happens here. We need the middle class to get off its numbed ass and do something.

What I'm interested in is seeing if Big Money gets off ITS ass to try to actually depose Republican incumbents -- Tea Partiers -- in the next election, because this wingnut shit is bad for business. They're screwing up a nicely-oiled machine that panders to a lot of pocketbooks, and you can only short the market so long before you start taking a hit, too.

comment #11

Hollis Mulwray says ...

The Dow closed today at a number very close to the close on 9/10/01. That means that any money you had invested in the market ten years ago is worth the same. Your flat. No earnings. No money to retire on. No dollars to put the kid through college. No interest to hedge inflation. That's something for everyone to worry about - not just the "rich".

Michael Moore is calling for the head of S&P to be placed under arrest. All that does is violate freedom of speech. Gotta love those crazy lefties. Is Moore on Newsweek's cover next week?

comment #12

Ray DeRousse says ...

Let's see ... we did nothing to the Wall Street guys and their government cronies who put us into this mess three years ago. I'm pretty sure nothing will happen to the S&P guys.

Where are these patriotic Americans who are supposed to be taking up arms against their government when it no longer operates properly? Probably watching the season premiere of Jersey Shore.

comment #13

Krillian says ...

Nah, they're reading movie columns and saying, "Someone else DO something!"

comment #14

MilkMan says ...

Trying to pin the blame on someone for the vicissitudes of the marketplace is pointless. Capitalism was created by God, who created it on the sixth day, somewhere between yeast infections and Ibogaine.

comment #15

sutterkane says ...

Exceptionally well put, MilkMan.

comment #16

Kakihara says ...

Edward: Except he had a Congress which was mostly on-board with him two years ago.

Hollis: That's why you don't invest all of your money in a market which can fuck you over on a good day.

"Michael Moore is calling for the head of S&P to be placed under arrest. All that does is violate freedom of speech. Gotta love those crazy lefties."

I didn't know graft is protected under speech now.

comment #17

johnnysure says ...

Boehner's fault? How is this Boehner's fault? As I recall, he and Obama tried to negotiate a deal with some raising of revenue. It's not his fault that the Tea Party is exactly what VicePresident Biden called them.

Here's hoping Michelle Bachman gets the Republican nomination and has to go into a debate with our well-educated President. That has potential for good TV.

comment #18

DiscoNap says ...

Remember in The Negotiator when the guy before Spacey tries to get on and talk to Jackson and then freaks out when Jackson hangs up? That's Obama. We're still waiting for the real guy.

comment #19

Peterzee says ...

I liked Obama because he's a sharp, conciliatory guy who believes in an intelligent and fair dialogue. Now that we see what that gets you from the right, I'm sorry Hillary didn't get the nomination, because she'd've wanted their nards on a stick. "Compromise my pantsuited ass. Bend over, Orange Boy."

comment #20

Kakihara says ...

Disco: I so wish you were wrong on that, but there's nothing which proves otherwise. I was a little more "realistic" in voting for Obama. I figured he wouldn't get the fantasy legislation done, but he'd at least pave the way for better things down the road by getting to the nitty-gritty of the problem. But no, he just keeps tossing out quick-fixes which avoid even dealing with the real problem at hand.

comment #21

coxcable says ...

@Hollis: The center cannot hold. American capitalism is simply incompatible with American democracy. It was an interesting 100 year experiment though.

@johnnysure: The Tea Party and Boehner are the same thing. Their little tiff is all just a ploy by the right... to make the crazies seem sensible and moderate by making super-crazies.

The catch is, Obama's moderate reaction to these clowns is now looking insane. Which only helps the authentic left.

comment #22

qdpsteve says ...

"Compromise my pantsuited ass. Bend over, Orange Boy."

Why would Hillary want to have hate sex with John Kerry?

comment #23

filmsofdusts says ...

The Krugman column is terrible. He begins by trashing the S&P for its down grading of US debt, comparing the rating agency with "young man who kills his parents, then pleads for mercy because he's and orphan." Krugman seems to regard the down-rating as the sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance. And why? Because S&p had given Lehman Bros. an A rating before it went bankrupt and therefore the company has no credibility.

Huh? Doesn't his point suggest the opposite of what he intends? By his own account, S&P has a bias to overrate bonds. S&P down rated US debt from AAA to A+. Seems like S&P could continue to downlist US debt a long way before even approaching Lehman territory. Plus, if A is supposed to be a vote of confidence in Lehman, how can AA+ constitute a pessimism so horrible that it is a crime against humanity?

He then goes on to suggest that there really aren't any problems with America's fiscal health that tax increases can't solve. And this is justified because we have "very low taxes by international standards."

I'm sorry, but this is chilling. A debt rating agency dares to let out some slight of truth, and Krugman trashes it, foaming at the mouth and nearly advocating jail terms for hate speech. Then he goes on to advocate the wholesale looting of the country to pay the government's debt that is anywhere between $14 trillion and $215 trillion including unfunded liabilities.

comment #24

Kakihara says ...

filmsofdusts: "Then he goes on to advocate the wholesale looting of the country to pay the government's debt that is anywhere between $14 trillion and $215 trillion including unfunded liabilities."

Didn't seem to be a problem for you when it was Enron and World Com doing it to the middle-class...

comment #25

HarryMoseby says ...

The modern-day hard-right winger is afflicted with tunnel vision, because his head is up his ass.

comment #26

poseidon72 says ...

This John Chambers of S&P guy going on TV and basically relishing in his agencies decision to downgrade our rating bordered on treason. What an A-hole. I hope they investigate all who shorted the market to see if they were in any way connected to this guy.

comment #27

Rashad says ...

I like how people blame "capitalism" as if we aren't one of the most socialist countries in the world.

comment #28

filmsofdusts says ...

You must have me mistaken for someone else, Kakihara. I was never an apologist for corrupt corporations such as Enron and World Com. In fact I am not a fan of the entire corporatist structure that grants privileges and immunities that are unnatural and immoral.

comment #29

Ray says ...

"But the real cause, of course, was the volatile climate brought about by rightwing terrorism over the debt-ceiling and budget-deficit standoff. "

Wow. You ARE as stupid as you look!

comment #30

Kakihara says ...

Rashad: "I like how people blame "capitalism" as if we aren't one of the most socialist countries in the world. "

The problem is it's reverse-Robin Hood socialism.

Ray: "Wow. You ARE as stupid as you look!"

Not as stupid as these tea-bag fucks.

comment #31

The Thing says ...

I don't see why everyone is hating on S&P for Enron. You have just as much right to hate on Enron's accountants as you do S&P. They were given information (which was played around with by a few at the top to hide numbers), and they rated them based on that. Lehman Brothers was a solid agency until they lost a bunch of money, and a day or 2 later, they filed for bankruptcy (1. I don't know the actual dates of the losses and bankruptcy; I'm just going from memory and 2. S&P has proven it takes a few days to change ratings). Lehman Brothers was one of the earliest and quickest casualties, and no one saw it coming (except for the 3 people who did but no one listened to). To say they're a non-factor or should be disbanded based on that is reactionary tripe fueled by the uneducated and idiotic who have no idea how this stuff works.

I mean, to say it's "unpatriotic" because an international company did it's job is just as retarded anything Palin or Maher says.

@Hollis Mulwray

"The Dow closed today at a number very close to the close on 9/10/01"

However, whatever money you've invested since March 16, 2008 has increased by about 60% after today. And you've lost 16% since February 12, 2007. Look, I can play this game to!

(Waiting as a man with liberal leanings to get flamed because I fingered Hollis Mulwray's gaping hole.)

"Wow. You ARE as stupid as you look!"

Not that I think Wells is smart (jokes, jokes), but even if you don't want to specifically blame House Republicans (or Republicans in general), all you have to do is change "rightwing terrorism" with "Congress", and you have one of the top reasons S&P downgraded us. So Wells isn't far off the mark here.

comment #32

actionlover says ...

I see Jeffrey got the memo calling for us all to refer to the Tea Party as "terrorists". Good job. But you did forget to say how they're "holding this county hostage".

And no, I'm not a big fan of the Tea Party, but I'm also not a fan of GroupThink.

comment #33

Kakihara says ...

The Thing: "To say they're a non-factor or should be disbanded based on that is reactionary tripe fueled by the uneducated and idiotic who have no idea how this stuff works."

If they were small companies which did not impact the economy, I might agree. But since they colluded with S+P, there's definitely some fraud and embezzlement going on in their assessments.

comment #34

TheGK says ...

The S&P downgrade was entirely justified. The US political system is broken and both the left and right of the political spectrum, especially the right, are retrenching into ideological purity.
S&P is expecting to see the farce of the debt ceiling negotiations become the norm for the next couple of years while the day to day business of actually running the country is left to rot, further damaging the US reputation around the world.
Keep an eye out for the expiry of the Bush tax cuts a few weeks before the end of Obama's 1st term. That's going to be a humdinger of hyperbolic nonsense.

Congratualtions to Rashad for the most retarded comment of the thread so far. Of all the democracies in the Western hemisphere, the US is by far the least socialist. Anyone who claims otherwise is just plain ignorant. The 'S' word gets bandied about so much these days, no one knows what it means anymore.

For the next decade, we're all fucked.

comment #35

mizerock says ...

The Tea Party had to destroy the credit rating in order to save it.