comment #1

Markj74 says ...

'...leaving him more or less hollow and adrift and adept only at marketing and manufacturing and screwing up Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.'

Jeff's initial response after seeing Crystal Skull at Cannes:

"Sections of Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull are a great deal of fun. I felt jazzed and charged during a good 60% or even 70% of it. I was more than delighted at times. What a pleasure, I told myself over and over, to swim in a first-rate, big-budget action film that throws one expertly-crafted thrill after another at you, and with plotting that's fairly easy to understand, dialogue that's frequently witty and sharp, and performances -- Harrison Ford, Shia LeBouf and Cate Blanchett's, in particular -- that are 90% delctable from start to finish."

Wells comment: I have no excuse. I was...I don;t know, feeling generous or mellow or flaky-minded, and I was taken in by the ease and emptiness of it. But take note, at least, that I said that I wasn't jazzed by 30% to 40% of it, and that this portion was therefore was a problem. I can only say that the second time I saw Crystal Skull it totally crashed. I don't understand why I wasn't blunter when I saw it in Cannes the first time. Oh, wait, I know....it was because I'd spoken to Harrison Ford for two or three minutes at a party the day before, and I was under "the spell", so to speak.

comment #2

Movie Watcher says ...

They'll get to Hope/Empire/Jedi but first it's the least of the three. My son went to the midnight showing and there only about 30 people there.

comment #3

Ceems says ...

I am dumbfounded that so many reviewers are giving TPM's 3D post-conversion a pass (I'm reading a lot of comments about the "subtlety" of the conversion--translation: "why bother?"). I saw the film (for free) last night and found the 3D AWFUL. The image was variously sludgy, blurry, dim, lo-res (my friend joked at one point "Are we watching a VCD projection?"), flat, out-of-focus, etc., etc. Added value of the extra dimension: nil. While I knew this whole endeavour was pointless from the get-go (who gives a shit about TPM?), I did not expect such a substandard presentation from the Lucasfilm techheads. I left the theatre convinced this release would reignite a Clash of the Titans-type backlash against the post-conversion process itself. Am I crazy? Did I just see an especially shabby projection? Please, if anybody else has seen TPM3D, help me out here.

It certainly pales in comparison to the Titanic 3D conversion that's been previewed in trailers so far.

comment #4

great scott says ...

Forget how he was in the movie, but this kid came across like a snotty, arrogant fucking little shit brat in INTERVIEWS, I wanted to slap him upside his head.

comment #5

Jason S. says ...

I've been saying the same thing for years. Jake ruined that movie (and in my estimation is IS a very good movie - better than the two that followed it.) Jar Jar didn't bother me. There was this thing that happened a year or so after that movie came out where it got hip to talk shit about it. I think it was during the summer of 2000 when it was announced that Hayden was going to play Anakin. I didn't hear a lot of complaints all through the summer of '99. There are a lot of people that like that movie but are too chickenshit to admit it.

comment #6

Jason S. says ...

If you watch the documentary on The Phantom Menace DVD you'll see that George was getting pretty fed up with Jake during filming. Hell, Liam Neeson looked annoyed by him.

comment #7

Markj74 says ...

Heartbreaking that Haley Joel Osment wasn't cast as Anakin. I remember Jake Lloyd's horrible performance in Jingle All The Way and was aghast that Lucas had cast him as Anakin.

comment #8

Brett G. says ...

The dialogue on TPM has been really weird over the years; I mean, don't get me wrong, there was certainly internet NERD outrage back in '99, but a LOT of reviews were pretty favorable, and I think it hovered above 60% on RT forever.

Somewhere along the way, it became this abomination that EVERYONE hated as if it was one of the most notorious BOMBS of all time when, in fact, a lot of people really liked it, which is why it's going to draw in $30 million this weekend. Same thing happened with Crystal Skull--it came out, and most (including critics) were like, "eh, it's pretty good" (rocking 77% on RT right now!), but now it's denigrated the same way the prequels were because that really loud NERD contingent painted the movie's fate on the internet. This is why you can go back and see glowing reviews from people 13 years ago, but now, those same people have thrown in with the other side.

(Not saying someone can't change their mind--they obviously can--but stuff like TPM isn't nearly as reviled by general audiences as people might think.)

comment #9

PastePotPete says ...

Brett, it was the hype and the newness of it. I remember when I first saw the Phantom Menace I didn't hate it, I was kind of buzzed on the cool stuff in the movie In fact I went back a few times. It's only over the course of subsequent viewings that the "ooh fancy cgi! ooh Darth Maul is cool!" faded and the real awfulness of the movie insinuated itself into my mind.

People talk about Jake Lloyd and Jar Jar Binks - those were always awful. People knew that going in. But the incessantly dull plot, average performances by the better parts of the cast took a while to sink in.

And now, 10+ years later we've seen dozens of films with comparable or better special effects, better world building, better action scenes etc, so all of those positives that existed when we first saw the movie have disappeared and all that's left is the awful bits. And there are so so many awful bits.

comment #10

PastePotPete says ...

And the affection some people still have today, I'll bet it's just nostalgia by people who were kids when it came out, and older fans curious about the 3d.

comment #11

Rashad says ...

I don't think it's simply the newness. I think a lot of it comes from group-think peer pressure to hate the films, and not discuss it on its own. Like you see people trot out the Red Letter Media stuff, as if that's the end all to the discussion. Moviebob actually had a fun video on this, this week.

I have never cared much for Star Wars, but it's interesting to see all the "It's dead to me" comments all over, only to see them comment on every article about it, and I'm sure they'll go see it again because "it's so bad."

comment #12

Raising_Kaned says ...

Nah, they'll mostly go see it again because "they have kids." Look, the majority of the hand-wringing angst about the Lucas/Star Wars universe by 30-40somethings is over (at least when it comes to the movies...the remaining nerds that still feel that way have largely transferred their feelings to the new SW video games being released).

comment #13

lazarus says ...

I'll take the Phantom Menace digital characters (which aren't limited to Jar Jar but also include the delightfully corrupt Watto, Sebulba, and Boss Nass) over the cut-rate Muppets in Return of the Jedi.

While he doesn't have Jar Jar's terrible lines and screen time, Salacious Crumb has NO business being in the Star Wars universe and is an appalling embarrassment. And Max Rebo (the blue elephant) is the pinnacle of character design laziness. That musical number in Jabba's Palace is the nadir of the entire saga, worse than any cheesy line from Anakin.

Also, I prefer wooden performances from Jake Lloyd and Natalie Portman (who got better as the trilogy progressed) over uninterested/overweight/drugged-out Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher in ROTJ. Anyone who celebrates that film simply because of the Luke/Vader/Palpatine stuff and trashes The Phantom Menace is a fucking idiot.

comment #14

lazarus says ...

Also, in response to Ceems, I think you just got a bad projection.

Here's a review that goes pretty in-depth with the conversion stuff and he seems to think they did a great job:

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/3D-Or-3D-Phantom-Menace-3D-Worth-It-29366.html

comment #15

Kakihara says ...

I know that TPM bombing now won't mean shit, but it's still sweet to see George's profit margin lowered for the next quarter, given that the film came in third, and the money it earned will end up paying for the conversion and P+A, rather than being profitable. Though this means Titanic's in even bigger trouble than I thought, if people are getting this tired of the 3D gimmick, because Star Wars at least has a rabid fanbase willing to buy almost anything. Titanic, on the other hand, was just the Twilight of the 90s. which means it'll come off embarrassing seeing it now, when you're not a teen girl, and/or on a date. Speaking of which, why *didn't* they release Titanic during Valentine's week? It would have made more sense, economically. Man, my argument that Avatar being a hit was just a fluke, because enough people who saw it were either gullible or liars about liking it, is starting to come to fruition.

comment #16

Kakihara says ...

Wells: "For me it was always Lloyd, Lloyd, wretched Lloyd when it came to summoning the fury. Jar-Jar Binks not so much. He was so ludicrous he barely made a dent."

So I guess you're a "Hate Willie more than Shortround" kinda guy, too?

comment #17

Kakihara says ...

"I will, however, pay to see The Empire Strikes Back in 3D, if they ever release that in a first-rate, retro-fitted way a la James Cameron's Titanic 3D. "

They're not gonna re-release it, because TPM 2.0 failed, and because George is a sore loser who feels he has to punish the original Star Wars fans for daring to deride his "insightful" political "commentary" and "visionary" FX.

comment #18

great scott says ...

Yeah, it's "bombing" big time. $20 million weekend. Can't say I agree with you a hundred percent on your police work there, Lou.

comment #19

Kakihara says ...

Brett; "Somewhere along the way, it became this abomination that EVERYONE hated as if it was one of the most notorious BOMBS of all time when, in fact, a lot of people really liked it, which is why it's going to draw in $30 million this weekend."

Actually, according to Deadline, $22 million. If this was Serenity in 2-D, that'd be great, but it's at least below average for a Star Wars-released pic against its budget, when you compare it with how well Clone Wars did.

comment #20

Kakihara says ...

scott: P+A and 3D conversions ain't cheap, buddy.

comment #21

lazarus says ...

Yeah, The Phantom Menace came in third...against two NEW movies.

Considering that A New Hope made $35 million (about $47 million adjusted) on its Special Edition re-release (which was promoted much more heavily), that's not bad at all. Especially with the film's repuation.

And if you think they're not going to actually wind up doing all six films you're as wrong as you were/are about Avatar. The original trilogy's profit alone will easily make this whole endeavor worth it.

comment #22

Kakihara says ...

It came in third against two movies, in spite of having a higher ticket upcharge, and a potentially larger fanbase which will buy just about anything off that series. That says everything you need to know right there. A New Hope 2.0 made that money off of normal ticket prices. As for the rest of the five Star Wars movies, George has openly stated that, if TPM underperforms, he will not re-release the the rest in theaters, because he's easily butt-hurt like that.

comment #23

great scott says ...

"George has openly stated that, if TPM underperforms, he will not re-release the rest in theatres."

So then I wonder when Attack of the Clones 3-D release date will be.

comment #24

Kakihara says ...

scott: Dude, George is such a skinflint, that even though he knows people would buy it on home video if it happened, he wants to keep low-balling the budget for a SW tv spin-off. So why would he want to invest in a 3D re-release of Clones after the bad WOM of the TPM re-release, *and* its underperforming box office?

comment #25

great scott says ...

Not a single box office analyst is saying it's "underperforming". NOT. A. SINGLE. ONE.

Pardon me while I beat my head against the wall.

comment #26

Raising_Kaned says ...

"Man, my argument that Avatar being a hit was just a fluke, because enough people who saw it were either gullible or liars about liking it, is starting to come to fruition."

Let's all take a brief moment to appreciate the true cowardice of this comment from D.Z. He was initially guaranteeing Avatar was going to bomb massively. When that clearly didn't happen, he (reluctantly) shifted his plan of attack to -- how if you really calculated the bookkeeping and the 3-D -- Avatar was still an underperformer relative to its cost at the B.O.

Now, somewhere along the line here (probably a couple months ago), he actually -- finally! -- admitted to himself that it was indeed financially successful. So, his "argument" now becomes that the reason it was a hit (something he denied for years) was because it was a "fluke." That's pretty much the definition of an unassailable theory right there. Outside of math and physics (in a vacuum), how can you ever hope to disprove something didn't happen because of chance?

So, congratulations, D.Z. -- it only took you two years and three different "theories," but, at long last, I think you can safely say that your current hypothesis on Avatar isn't wrong (which isn't to say that it's actually "right" in any shape or form -- not by a fucking long shot, you moron!).

comment #27

Brett G. says ...

I was going off early projections putting it at $30 million, plus I observed some crazy big crowds for it last night out here in the boonies. I dunno, if it's $22 million, it's not bad. What did Lion King do, about $30 mil? And that one IS pretty well beloved, so I'd really hesitate to call TPM 3D a failure. That it made even that much kind of goes to show that it's not universally reviled.

I'm also not completely defending TPM as a movie, just for the record. It's super flawed, but there's still a lot to like about it. Worst Star Wars movie to be sure, but you could do worse than to be the worst Star Wars movie.

comment #28

Kakihara says ...

great scott: "Not a single box office analyst is saying it's "underperforming". NOT. A. SINGLE. ONE."

Deadline projected $33 million yesterday. It's an underperformer.

Kaned: Oh, I'm sorry. Didn't everyone who was "right" also claim that 3D was the fucking wave of the future, and that Kick-Ass and Jennifer's Body would be big hits?

Brett: Lion King actually underperformed, relative to the non-inflation adjusted gross of its original wide release. Especially if you realize most of that $30 million came from a ticket surcharge. But it looks better than TPM, because it ranked #1 that weekend.

"but you could do worse than to be the worst Star Wars movie. "

Yeah, you can endorse Howard the Duck and the Star Wars Holiday Special.

comment #29

Raising_Kaned says ...

If you listened really closely, nobody was actually saying that 3D was "the wave of the future." It just happened to work really fucking well with Avatar, that's all (it's not the tools you have, but how you use them). Besides, it's a revived '50s technology, dork.

That being said, 3D tentpoles have been pretty successful in getting butts into theaters where regular blockbusters have failed in the past couple years. Simply put, it's about giving the consumer an experience he can't duplicate at home (at least not yet, anyway).

comment #30

Kakihara says ...

Kaned: "If you listened really closely, nobody was actually saying that 3D was "the wave of the future.It just happened to work really fucking well with Avatar, that's all (it's not the tools you have, but how you use them). "

Uh, you're totally full of shit on that one, especially when you look at that clip of Scorsese and Cameron touting Hugo.

"That being said, 3D tentpoles have been pretty successful in getting butts into theaters where regular blockbusters have failed in the past couple years."

Yeah, that's why overall attendance was down last year.

comment #31

Raising_Kaned says ...

I would hope Scorsese would tout Hugo -- after all, he directed it!

Look, I'm not going to get into a correlation/causation debate with you about the declining overall movie attendance and the increasing amount of 3D features, because those are big words.

Suffice it to say this: if you're bleeding profusely from a wound, I doubt you would decline the assistance of a bandage/makeshift tourniquet even though that almost certainly wouldn't stop you from losing any blood.

comment #32

Kakihara says ...

Raising: He just didn't tout the film, but the format.

"Suffice it to say this: if you're bleeding profusely from a wound, I doubt you would decline the assistance of a bandage/makeshift tourniquet even though that almost certainly wouldn't stop you from losing any blood."

Please. 3D's just there to maintain studio execs' drug habits. It won't save the industry, nor will it change the movie-going experience. When an online reviewer who gets paid to write reviews has to write an open letter about his own bad experience with noisy assholes, it's over for Hollywood. The industry will always have gimmicks to reel audiences in, but unless it's willing to address the (party) elephants in the room, its market share will continue to decline. Because there's only so much crap even overseas viewers are willing to take, too.

comment #33

Brett G. says ...

In what world are you living in where you expect 3D re-releases of movies widely available on DVD to compare to the original theatrical runs?

Yeah, the Phantom Menace isn't going to bring in $60 million on its opening weekend (or whatever it'd be adjusted for 2012 dollars). I think anyone would have told you that. I'd be shocked if it's final haul doesn't at least pay for itself.

Also, say what you want about The Phantom Menace, but it's nowhere on the level of Howard the Duck or the Holiday Special. That's the type of hyperbole that's created the perception that TPM is this massively reviled movie when it isn't.

comment #34

Kakihara says ...

Brett: "In what world are you living in where you expect 3D re-releases of movies widely available on DVD to compare to the original theatrical runs?"

Then why release 'em in the first place?

"Yeah, the Phantom Menace isn't going to bring in $60 million on its opening weekend (or whatever it'd be adjusted for 2012 dollars)."

It's not even gonna bring in half of that money. That's why it's such a disappointment.

"Also, say what you want about The Phantom Menace, but it's nowhere on the level of Howard the Duck or the Holiday Special."

Yeah, it has CG. Big difference.

comment #35

Brett G. says ...

So, just so we're clear, you're expecting 3D re-releases to rake in hundreds of millions of dollars? Obviously these re-releases are being done as cash grabs--I am not so naive as to believe otherwise--but something tells me that George Lucas isn't sitting there expecting to make $200 million off of this (though, given some of his recent statements, who knows how thorough his delusions are).

In this case specifically, don't underestimate how much money is being made on ancillary tie-ins; Star Wars is more machine now than movie and draws in revenue from all corners. I would be willing to bet that TPM's 3D conversion was covered by the toys and other licensing. In fact, I'm staring at some ad for a new SW video game or something right now on another tab.

"Yeah, it has CG. Big difference."

And the prequels are generally competent in more areas (scripting and dialogue sometimes notwithstanding).

comment #36

Kakihara says ...

Brett: "So, just so we're clear, you're expecting 3D re-releases to rake in hundreds of millions of dollars? Obviously these re-releases are being done as cash grabs--I am not so naive as to believe otherwise--but something tells me that George Lucas isn't sitting there expecting to make $200 million off of this "

Well, that Lion King re-release made almost $100 million...

"In this case specifically, don't underestimate how much money is being made on ancillary tie-ins;"

Actually, they were *giving away* toys to get people to see TPM 3D.

"And the prequels are generally competent in more areas"

Again, it's just CG.

comment #37

Raising_Kaned says ...

Brett, I think you're relatively new around here (at least under that particular name). Unless you're just going to engage our friend Kakihara here purely for kicks, don't even bother. He's not into presenting logical arguments, or making any sort coherent, real-world sense.

comment #38

Kakihara says ...

Yeah, because trying to spin the re-release of a former hit movie which didn't even make what it cost for P+A back as a win is completely logical.

comment #39

Kakihara says ...

Hell, it didn't do just bad, but worse than Journey 2, a sequel to a movie no one even remembers.

comment #40

Simonster says ...

One thing that puzzles me is that Jake Lloyd gets tons of flak while I can't remember anyone complaining about that god-awful kid in "The Blind Side". I wanted to punch that little fucker in the face something bad.

comment #41

Edward Havens says ...

The Titanic 3D release has nothing to worry about. It doesn't have the baggage of less-than-stellar followups to bog it down.

comment #42

Mgmax, le Corbeau says ...

"Also, I prefer wooden performances from Jake Lloyd and Natalie Portman (who got better as the trilogy progressed) over uninterested/overweight/drugged-out Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher in ROTJ. Anyone who celebrates that film simply because of the Luke/Vader/Palpatine stuff and trashes The Phantom Menace is a fucking idiot."

Basically, people who believe there are only three real Star Wars movies overestimate by 33%.

comment #43

taikwan says ...

Saw it yesterday with two of my sons. One of their sons was suppose to join us (he's 6) but he said he didn't want to see Qui Gon die..nor hear it.
Totally sold out theater and when we came out there was a long, long line waiting to get in to the next show.

We all enjoyed it so much. Discovered new details, loved being in a theater so full of kids who freaking LOVE Jar Jar and reacted like they knew Anakin personally.

My only problem was the sound - it wasn't up to the level of the visual. also a terrible Brisk Tea commercial with Yoda and Darth Maul that is beyond lame.

Jake Lloyd - has a few really, really good scenes - at the dinner table on Tatooine, aboard the Queen's ship escaping Tatooine when Padme recognizes his feeling cold as missing his mother...this is rather a huge aspect of the saga and Anakin. Missing loved ones, losing loved ones and fear to lose more. And that's something we all have in common.

George is not after your money. He donates billions to education and other good causes. But he would love for kids today to see Star Wars on the big screen, where it should be seen. and that's a huge reason for this re-investment.

comment #44

taikwan says ...

P.S. - I've talked to Jake several times in person. He was treated so brutally and those criticisms were so personal, that his family pulled him from the business. He was going to college to study beyond the scenes technology.

comment #45

taikwan says ...

whoops - "behind the scenes" -
Also - it really hurt me, as a parent, to someone so young seem so jaded, cynical and beyond hurt. I wonder if he'll ever recover.

comment #46

LexG says ...

LITTLE KEIRA ALERT!

Cute cute!

comment #47

Kakihara says ...

Edward: "It doesn't have the baggage of less-than-stellar followups to bog it down."

If you don't count Dark Angel, Ghosts of the Abyss, and Avatar, then sure. But it's still three hours, and a helluva downer for a spring film.

taikwan: "George is not after your money. He donates billions to education and other good causes."

That's why he's releasing a movie no one liked or wanted in 3D?

comment #48

opinion says ...

A little perspective, please. SW, prequel or original trilogy, is not a classic for its acting or its dialog, all of it pretty laughable, and I say this as a fan! It's just the marriage of kinetic filmmaking and Trumbull quality SFX with better-written B-serial. No extra hipness, no artsy wink-wink varnish (Yeah, I'm looking at you, 'Haywire'). That we get all worked up about it is only a testament to how good these movies are at what they INTEND to do. It is also our hypocritical pretense that because someone likes Antonioni and Battleship Potemkim you could never ever ever fall for B movie trash. Guess what? You can.