Posted by Jeffrey Wells on June 18, 2007 at 12:53 PM
Torture porn and the general gross-out horror flicks are running out of steam, but does that mean people are cool to any kind of scary movie, even an upscale, quality-level gothic horror flick like 1408? It's tracking at 56 general awareness, 30 definite interest and 9 first choice -- not bad but not a volcano either. The definitely-not-interested percentage is 12, which obviously indicates a turn-off element.
Paramount Vantage's A Mighty Heart is only at 44, 22 and 6. There seems to be a feeling out there that people aren't interested in anything Middle East-y or 9.11-ish. (Damn milquetoasts, ostriches, too-sooners.) This is Michael Winterbottom's best film ever in that it doesn't seem to have been directed by him but by Michael Mann.
The reviews have been good-respectable-decent, but not that many critics have been saying "drop everything and see it." Plus it's being said that Angelina Jolie is "not that big a star, and never has been," a guy says. Whatever that means. The knee-jerkers are going all "meh"? Jolie is a major name and (take this to the bank) she gives a first-rate performance here.
For a movie that cost more than $200 million (is it higher?), Evan Almighty's tracking isn't looking all that great...89, 40 and 15. It appears fated to take in $25 million by Sunday night -- that's not big enough for a big-studio (i.e., Universal), super-sized gamble movie.
Live Free Die Hard (20th Century Fox, opening Wednesday, 6.27), the slam-bang Bruce Willis action tentpoler, is at 92, 36 and 5 -- decent opening (maybe a better-than-decent one) but not through the roof....yet.
Dull-as-dishwater Evening (opening 6.29) is at 22, 2 and 1...forget it.
Disney/Pixar's Ratatouille (6.29) is going to be huge. Word-of-mouth is soaring, and it wisely snuck last weekend across the country. It's now at 78, 36 and 7...definitely on track to be the #1 picture that weekend.
Sicko (6,29) is at 38, 22 and 3. And yet 22 % are saying "definitely not interested." Neg-heads, cynics, rightwingers, ostriches. "A lot of the country doesn't want to see Michael Moore," a friend told me. Except Sicko is a major eye-opener, it delivers basic real-world truths and (trust me) it makes you choke up at the end.
License to Wed (opening 7.3), the supposedly atrocious Robin Williams comedy, is at 69, 22 and 2.
Michael Bay's Transformers (7.3) is at 87, 41 and 12...good but not yet sensational. It has time to build so we'll see what's doing next week. Obviously has the highest definite-interest and first-choice numbers.

Last updated: October 3, 2007
Obviously I'm light in several categories.
Suggestions and disputations are welcome.
BEST PICTURE: Australia (20th Century Fox), The Argentine (Focus Features), Guerilla (Focus Features), Milk (Focus Features), Seven Pounds (Sony), The Curious Case of Benjamin Button (Paramount/Warner Bros.), The Soloist (DreamWorks), Body of Lies (Warner Bros.), Revolutionary Road (Paramount Vantage/DreamWorks), The Changeling (Universal Pictures), Frost/Nixon (Universal), Doubt (Miramax), Blindness (Universal Pictures), Defiance (Paramount Vantage), The Duchess (Paramount Vantage), Valkyrie (MGM-UA), The Reader (Weinstein Co.)
BEST DIRECTOR: Fernando Meirelles (Blindness), David Fincher (The Curious Case of Benjamin Button), Ron Howard (Frost/Nixon), Brian Singer (Valkyrie), Baz Luhrmann (Australia), Steven Soderbergh (The Argentine and Guerilla), Gus Van Sant (Milk), Gabriele Muccino (Seven Pounds), Joe Wright (The Soloist), Ridley Scott (Body of Lies), Sam Mendes (Revolutionary Road), Clint Eastwood (Changeling), John Patrick Shanley (Doubt), Edward Zwick (Defiance), Saul Dibb (The Duchess), Stephen Daldry (The Reader)
BEST ACTOR: Leonardo DiCaprio (Revolutionary Road), Brad Pitt (The Curious Case of Benjamin Button), Ralph Fiennes (The Duchess), Hugh Jackman (Australia), Tom Cruise (Valkyrie), Harrison Ford (Crossing Over), Sean Penn (Milk), James Franco (Pineapple Express), Philip Seymour Hoffman (Synecdoche, New York), Heath Ledger (Dark Knight), Will Smith (Seven Pounds), Jamie Foxx (The Soloist)
BEST ACTRESS: Kate Winslet (Revolutionary Road), Angelina Jolie (Changeling), Keira Knightley (The Duchess), Nicole Kidman (Australia)
BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR: Leiv Schreiber (Defiance), Frank Langella (Frost/Nixon), John Malkovich (Changeling and Burn After Reading), Bill Nighy (Valkyrie), Robert Downey Jr. (The Soloist), Robert Downey Jr. (Tropic thunder), James Franco (The Pineapple Express), Alan Alda (Nothing But the Truth)
BEST SUPPORTING ACTRESS: Meryl Streep (Doubt), Amy Adams (Doubt), Vera Farmiga (Nothing But the Truth)
BEST ANIMATED FEATURE: Dr. Seuss' Horton Hears a Who (20th Century Fox)
BEST ORIGINAL SCREENPLAY: Charlie Kaufman (Synecdoche, New York)
BEST ADAPTED SCREENPLAY: Peter Straughan (How to Lose Friends and Alienate People)
SPECIAL EFFECTS: Iron Man, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull
Michelle discovers a couple of comedy films thanks to the power of Netflix.
Adam joins the Elsewhere crew from the Windy City and hits the ground running this week.
Comments
Ratatouille was perfect, totally lives up to everything you'd expect from Pixar/Bird's second team-up.
It's great to see Pixar recover flawlessly from the "merely good" fiasco that was their last film. Anyone disappointed by the annoying pop culture jokes and toilet humor from Cars(which before, Pixar had taken the high road to avoid) will be very happy with Ratatouille.
Posted by: Bocephus
at
June 18, 2007 01:51 PM
Which "annoying pop culture jokes and toilet humor from Cars" are you talking about? I don't remember anything.
Posted by: Wrecktum
at
June 18, 2007 01:53 PM
The brand logos that had been re-tooled to have "carish" names are the main beef I had with Cars, I guess that doesn't really fall under pop-culture references though. The Ari from Entourage cameo by Jeremy Piven does, though. And doesn't Mater say "git r done" at one point?
As for toilet humor, the farting cow tipping scenes and Mater's "I'd give my left lug nut" line come to mind.
I'm not saying that Cars was overflowing with these cliches, it was still miles above what the other animation studios are crapping out. But Pixar should be held to a higher standard, a standard which Ratatouille exceeds.
Posted by: Bocephus
at
June 18, 2007 02:16 PM
The marketing for 1408 has been dismal, selling every plot point and piece of CGI gimmick in the movie and making it look like something noisy and obnoxious.
I like the 'best film in that it seems to have been directed by Michael Mann'. Does that mean the acting is horribly uneven, the videography is cruddy, and it's all kind of tedious?
Posted by: jeffmcm
at
June 18, 2007 02:23 PM
Selling every plot point? Guy enters haunted room. See paranormal activity. Dead daughter enters vision at one point. Sam Jackson is weird. It snows. I am clueless as to what's going on, or the outcome, and i look forward to finding out this weekend.
Posted by: Mark
at
June 18, 2007 02:31 PM
Bocephus, I just remembered some Cars pop-culture: voice cameos by Jay Leno, Darrell Waltrip, Bob Costas, Richard Petty, etc. Mater does in fact say "Git r done" at one point, much to my embarrassment.
Regarding the tractor tipping...until you mentioned it, I hadn't considered the tractor noises to be farting. Funny. I've seen the movie three times and I never made the connection.
Anyway, can someone explain Wells' analysis to me? Why is Evan Almighty's 89, 40 and 15 considered not "all that great" while Ratatouille's 78, 36 and 7 is "huge"?
Posted by: Wrecktum
at
June 18, 2007 02:59 PM
I had no hopes for 1408, really, until Jeff said it was good. But then I lived through that era when there seemed to be a shitty new Stephen King movie directed by Mick Garris in movie theaters every month-- anyone up for a double bill of The Tommyknockers and Needful Things? Stephen King movies are guilty until proven quality.
I'll get interested in A Mighty Heart when I hear strong evidence that the guys who killed him are actually the bad guys in it.
Posted by: Mgmax
at
June 18, 2007 03:04 PM
Wrecktum, I'm guessing because Evan is opening this weekend and Ratatouille is opening next?
All I can think.
Posted by: cjKennedy
at
June 18, 2007 03:21 PM
Because animated films always out perform tracking numbers, as it's impossible to track the under 13-year old audience. that said, Evan Almighty will get it's share of tikes and that $25 million number seems awfully low.
Posted by: Mark
at
June 18, 2007 03:35 PM
Jeff's box office estimate on EVAN does seem awfully low. I'm highly doubting it does smaller numbers than OCEAN'S 13. And as for TRANSFORMERS, what is the point in paying attention to a movie's tracking three weekends out? It might be a good barometer of ad dollar spending, but that's about it.
Posted by: bmcintire
at
June 18, 2007 03:44 PM
"Paramount Vantage's A Mighty Heart is only at 44, 22 and 6. There seems to be a feeling out there that people aren't interested in anything Middle East-y or 9.11-ish. (Damn milquetoasts, ostriches, too-sooners.)"
It might have a chance in the fall, but wouldn't fit in the summer. Plus the guy worked for a magazine which advocated the war and the kind of policies which led to New Orleans being flooded; so I'm assuming the public is likely to be less sympathetic as a result.
"For a movie that cost more than $200 million (is it higher?), Evan Almighty's tracking isn't looking all that great...89, 40 and 15. It appears fated to take in $25 million by Sunday night -- that's not big enough for a big-studio (i.e., Universal), super-sized gamble movie."
I'm gonna be bold and bet $30-$35 million, but only because the kiddie crowd needs something to keep them busy, while waiting for Ratatouillie.
"Plus it's being said that Angelina Jolie is "not that big a star, and never has been," a guy says. Whatever that means."
It's the truth, Jeff. The only films the average movie-goer associate with her are Hackers, Tomb Raider, and Sky Captain.
"Word-of-mouth is soaring, and it wisely snuck last weekend across the country. It's now at 78, 36 and 7...definitely on track to be the #1 picture that weekend."
Possibly, but it'll probably have a box office on par with Shrek 3, because the cg talking animal thing is getting old.
"Sicko (6,29) is at 38, 22 and 3. And yet 22 % are saying "definitely not interested." Neg-heads, cynics, rightwingers, ostriches. "A lot of the country doesn't want to see Michael Moore," a friend told me."
Harvey really blew the marketing on that one. But to be fair, it's tough to sell a film from a "controversial" filmmaker on a subject which isn't really that controversial: our shitty health care system.
Posted by: D.Z.
at
June 18, 2007 03:54 PM
"attrocious Robin Williams comedy".... is there any other kind?
in other news...
I'd really like to see "A Mighty Heart" but I've been banned from seeing it by Angelina Jolie because I once voted Republican.
Posted by: Walter Sobchak
at
June 18, 2007 03:55 PM
"It's the truth, Jeff. The only films the average movie-goer associate with her are Hackers, Tomb Raider, and Sky Captain."
Er, DZ: Ever hear of a movie called "Mr. and Mrs. Smith"?
Posted by: Joe Leydon
at
June 18, 2007 04:02 PM
And another conversation destroyed by DZ.
For example, 'it'll probably have a box office on par with Shrek 3, because the cg talking animal thing is getting old' is obviously meant to convey his idea 'Shrek 3 is a big disappointment' but the actual truth of the matter is that Shrek 3 has thus far grossed $297m, on par to reach at least $320m, which will make it the 18th-or-so highest grossing movie in domestic box office history.
To sum up: DZ sucks.
Posted by: jeffmcm
at
June 18, 2007 04:02 PM
DZ also doesn't realize that nobody associates any actor with Hackers because nobody ever saw it and she wasn't a star at that time; also that Tomb Raider was a hit (at least, the first one).
Posted by: jeffmcm
at
June 18, 2007 04:05 PM
Joe: "Er, DZ: Ever hear of a movie called "Mr. and Mrs. Smith"?"
People saw that one for Pitt. They could have cast anyone for her part, and it would have done the same at the box office.
jeff: Shrek 3 came and went even worse than Spider Man 3. And the last one which was much more successful than it did horribly on home video. This is the end for that franchise. As for Tomb Raider, it made money, because of the horny fanboys, not because anyone thought Jolie was appealing enough to see in something serious like A Mighty Heart.
Posted by: D.Z.
at
June 18, 2007 04:18 PM
Shrek 3 is currently in 6th place in the U.S. box-office. You can't say 'came and went' since it has not yet gone (ditto for Spider-Man 3, in 10th place).
What the f#%& does it matter how Shrek 2 did on home video? It still made tens, more likely hundreds, of millions of dollars.
You have no basis in fact for your original false opinion, so you madely attempt to distract and change the subject.
And Austin Powers was a hit in theaters.
Posted by: jeffmcm
at
June 18, 2007 04:26 PM
Wow, a french-speaking women's husband is captureed by muslim extemists and eventually decapitated. Replace Jolie with anyone else, besides Jack Bauer, and guess what? The tracking numbers are identical or lower.
Selling this movie is as tough as it gets. It's low numbers will do little to reflect the BO power, or even lack thereof, re Jolie.
Posted by: Mark
at
June 18, 2007 04:31 PM
Jeff, yours is the lament of someone who's seen the great movies waiting behind the worthless marketing of "1408" and "A Mighty Heart". Everybody getting polled just sees the lame trailers and TV ads.
One reason "1408" is tracking poorly is apparent in the fact that every critic that I've seen sing its praises has also pointed out how much they were DREADING the idea of sitting through it. It comes off as just another "White Noise"/creepy demon kid flick. Cusack looks like he's giving a turd of a performance in the trailer, but the reviews are glowing for him, so, I guess the marketing effed up big time.
And don't go blaming the milquetoasts/ostriches for the low interest in "A Mighty Heart", which, based on advertising alone, looks like another "Beyond Borders" suckfest from Jolie, even though its been getting really strong reviews like yours. It should have been marketed more as an heir to "The Insider". And I'm so personally sick of Jolie's overexposure as a humanitarian, an adoption junkie, and a tabloid obsession that I find it hard to muster any enthusiasm at all for what looks to be a tight little movie from Winterbottom.
Posted by: Hallick
at
June 18, 2007 04:42 PM
"Selling this movie is as tough as it gets. It's low numbers will do little to reflect the BO power, or even lack thereof, re Jolie."
Put an H before that BO and that's where this movie would've found some real power.
Posted by: Hallick
at
June 18, 2007 04:45 PM
funny, the suggestion to market AMH as an "heir to The Insider", another impossible sell that had all the critics and Oscar noms and couldn't break $30 million at the box office.
Posted by: Mark
at
June 18, 2007 04:49 PM
"Plus the guy worked for a magazine which advocated the war and the kind of policies which led to New Orleans being flooded; so I'm assuming the public is likely to be less sympathetic as a result."
That's assuming that most people could even name the newspaper that he worked for; and then that they ever paid enough attention to the material it produced to notice these points about the war and Katrina. At a generous best, the "public" in your imagination probably doesn't exceed the low three figures.
Posted by: Hallick
at
June 18, 2007 04:53 PM
AMH would've done well on HBO, but the hell if Jolie is interested in an Emmy.
Posted by: Mark
at
June 18, 2007 04:56 PM
DZ, you really think that Mr & Mrs Smith's success was because people cared only about Pitt? Last time I checked, his only rather sizable successes box office wise were Troy and the Ocean films. Even then it's hard to peg him as the main draw in those offerings. Definitely a recognizable name, but not the reason most people go to see a movie.
People wanted to see what the fuss was over when it came to him leaving Aniston and hooking up with the very recognizable Jolie. True some people may have seen the film, no matter who was in it, but interest was definitely higher because she was the co-star.
Posted by: Aladdin Sane
at
June 18, 2007 05:45 PM
DZ - MR. & MRS. SMITH opened to $50M (to eventually do $186M) at the domestic box office, Brad Pitt's biggest opening yet (including TROY, VAMPIRE and all three OCEAN'S pics). Angelina gets as much credit for that one as he does. And I would have to say the average American knows her better from ALEXANDER, THE BONE COLLECTOR or the second TOMB RAIDER than from the little-seen HACKERS or SKY CAPTAIN.
That does not mean that A MIGHTY HEART will do any business. Witness BEYOND BORDERS, LIFE OR SOMETHING LIKE IT and GIRL INTERRUPTED. Folks seem to like her scantily clad and actioned up, not serious and depressed. Much like her irritating pious public persona.
Posted by: bmcintire
at
June 18, 2007 05:49 PM
Aladdin: "DZ, you really think that Mr & Mrs Smith's success was because people cared only about Pitt? Last time I checked, his only rather sizable successes box office wise were Troy and the Ocean films."
You forgot Se7en, Twelve Monkeys, and Legends of the Fall. Hell, without him, Meet Joe Black and Seven Days in Tibet would've flopped as badly as Waterworld and The Postman did for Costner; instead they were just disappointments. I guarantee that half (and maybe even 80 percent ) of the success of Fight Club on dvd was Pitt's name on the cover.
"Definitely a recognizable name, but not the reason most people go to see a movie."
So explain why Troy did better than Kingdom of Heaven.
"People wanted to see what the fuss was over when it came to him leaving Aniston and hooking up with the very recognizable Jolie."
If that were the case, then The Break-Up would have had the same box office.
bmc: "Angelina gets as much credit for that one as he does. And I would have to say the average American knows her better from ALEXANDER, THE BONE COLLECTOR or the second TOMB RAIDER than from the little-seen HACKERS or SKY CAPTAIN."
She gets as much credit for helping the M+M Smith, in spite of the fact that her name couldn't even salvage the last three disasters you described?
Posted by: D.Z.
at
June 18, 2007 06:49 PM
Please don't feed the troll.
Posted by: jeffmcm
at
June 18, 2007 08:00 PM
DZ - SE7EN, 12 MONKEYS and LEGENDS OF THE FALL all had solid but unspectacular openings, and MONKEYS was a Bruce Willis movie first and foremost.
THE BREAK-UP opened to $39.1M, nearly a full year after the whole Brangelina thing had died down. If that had been Brad Pitt's movie, it would have tied with his second-biggest opening.
All of the "last three disasters" that I mentioned were different in tone than MR. & MRS. SMITH (or the TOMB RAIDER movies), a point that I made and you ignored. The subject matter of A MIGHTY HEART will do enough to keep the box office low, outside of the fact that it's a downer-toned Jolie picture.
And TROY did better than KINGDOM for much the same reason it did better than ALEXANDER - it got there first.
Posted by: bmcintire
at
June 18, 2007 08:05 PM
I've now come to the conclusion that D.Z. is in an alternate universe where everything he says it true. He is able to communicate with us only through sunspots and a bend in time.
Posted by: BurmaShave
at
June 18, 2007 08:44 PM
It should be pointed out (as a charming chap from BOM once did) that epics do much better overseas than in the US (as TROY, KINGDOM and KING ARTHUR did), as long as the epic isn't about Americans and is full of British character actors.
Posted by: Ian Sinclair
at
June 18, 2007 08:45 PM
"DZ - SE7EN, 12 MONKEYS and LEGENDS OF THE FALL all had solid but unspectacular openings,"
Pitt's name put most of the directors of those films on the map. They were only doing average numbers at the box office before they cast him.
"and MONKEYS was a Bruce Willis movie first and foremost."
That's how it was advertised, but Willis wasn't the reason people continued to see it.
"THE BREAK-UP opened to $39.1M, nearly a full year after the whole Brangelina thing had died down. If that had been Brad Pitt's movie, it would have tied with his second-biggest opening."
But that's only because of Vaughn's success, not because of Aniston or Jolie.
"All of the "last three disasters" that I mentioned were different in tone than MR. & MRS. SMITH (or the TOMB RAIDER movies), a point that I made and you ignored."
And the "disasters" Pitt happened to be in were different from his regular work; yet they managed to do better than her films in general. Her appeal is clearly minor at best.
Posted by: D.Z.
at
June 18, 2007 08:48 PM
does 1408 have the prestory for 1482?
Posted by: corey3rd
at
June 18, 2007 09:21 PM
Twelve Monkeys: Come for Bruce Willis, stay for Brad Pitt's showy, occasionally annoying stunt performance!
DZ, what's wrong with you? If I buy you a puppy, or perhaps a large book of crossword puzzles, would that help?
Posted by: jeffmcm
at
June 18, 2007 09:52 PM
Has no one else just learned to skip over DZ's posts like me? As soon as I see quote marks and a sentence starting with "Actually, (insert name of poster here)", I hit the pg dn key.
Posted by: Arran
at
June 18, 2007 10:28 PM
By the way, thanks to everyone for not fighting the name Torture Porn. It's a perfect description. Besides, if we have to say Graphic Novels, we get to call it Torture Porn.
Posted by: BurmaShave
at
June 18, 2007 10:30 PM
Okay, while I never did see Se7en in theaters, I know that in my school, it was buzzed about because of the story, and not because of Pitt. While he does a good job with the role, he's not what everyone talks about anymore. I hear more affinity for Morgan Freeman's character than anything.
12 Monkeys was sold as a Bruce Willis film. He was in the middle of a career high then.
As for Legends of the Fall, well, it didn't exactly set the world on fire as far as BO goes - probably more successful than people thought it was going to be...but again, more to do with the story, and not Pitt (although I hear his presence didn't hurt in female audiences spreading the good word of mouth).
Um, I was going to write a big spiel on Kingdom of Heaven vs Troy, but then I thought better of it. I seem to recall King Arthur not doing gangbusters either. I suppose that's because Brad Pitt wasn't in it though.
Anyhow, I think Arran is right. What good has ever come from reading a DZ post?
Posted by: Aladdin Sane
at
June 18, 2007 11:47 PM
I think LEGENDS OF THE FALL is what really cemented Pitt as the heartthrob of our time. I've said it on here before, but I really can't think of a hit he's ever had just based on his name. He's really coming into his own though. Pitt and Clooney definetly have a Newman/Redford thing.
Posted by: BurmaShave
at
June 19, 2007 01:12 AM
jeff: "Twelve Monkeys: Come for Bruce Willis, stay for Brad Pitt's showy, occasionally annoying stunt performance!"
His performance is what adds life to what would otherwise be just an apocalyptic b-flick like The Omen or The Prophecy.
Aladdin: Willis was technically in a comeback phase. As for Legends of the Fall, it didn't do great, but it was talked about a lot more than Unforgiven and The Last of the Mohicans.
Posted by: D.Z.
at
June 19, 2007 01:14 AM
Okay now you've just gone insane.
Posted by: BurmaShave
at
June 19, 2007 02:29 AM
Weird, the other two were released in 1992, not 1994. How they were still talked about with the same buzz level when Legends came out has got to be some sort of miracle.
Truly you have a dizzying selective memory.
Posted by: Aladdin Sane
at
June 19, 2007 05:29 AM
DZ, do you watch movies with your eyes open or closed?
I am so fucking sick of you bashing every single movie that has ever existed that wasn't made by the two or three directors that you don't hate and then masking your opinion as a drop-dead fact. Twelve Monkeys is my favorite movie of 1995. It's substantially better in every way than The Omen, plus the two movies have virtually nothing in common with each other. One is a science fiction movie, the other is a religious horror movie with a creepy little kid. You're a fucking asshole who posts for no reason except to piss people off.
Someday I'm going to show up at your apartment in West Hollywood to get a look at how high they stack shit these days. I'll buy you a gift first, though, which would you prefer, the anniversary DVD of Reservoir Dogs or the collected works of William Shakespeare?
Posted by: jeffmcm
at
June 19, 2007 11:22 AM
I've got it all figured out.
DZ is a diabolical computerized hit generator invented by a team of scientists to help keep blog hit counts up.
Every comment is parsed by a supercomputer and a contrarian response is automatically generated. Think about it. This explains everything:
1) the way certain keywords like Tarantino or Arclight or Angelina Jolie always get a response.
2) the way the original comment is routinely misunderstood. Computers are good, but they can't always catch all the nuances of the English language.
3) the way the responses are mechanical and repetitive and frequently make no sense whatsoever even in the very rare instances when they actually seem to relate to the quoted passages. Again, the language is a stumbling block.
4) the sheer relentlessness of it all. Only a computer could keep this behavior up 24/7 without eventually committing suicide.
Posted by: cjKennedy
at
June 19, 2007 12:56 PM
Or, he's an emotionally stunted isolated jackass with a huge ego and sense of entitlement who thinks that his limited tastes are universal and thinks a conversation consists of telling other people why they're wrong.
Posted by: jeffmcm
at
June 19, 2007 01:12 PM
That scenario is too depressing to consider so I'm going with the diabolical supercomputer.
Posted by: cjKennedy
at
June 19, 2007 01:19 PM
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Posted by: juanma
at
November 12, 2007 12:37 AM
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