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“Smart, reliable and way ahead of the curve … a must and invaluable read.”
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“So when I said I’d like to leave my cowboy hat there, I was obviously saying (in my head at least) that I’d be back to stay the following year … simple and quite clear all around.”
–Jeffrey Wells, HE, January ’09
“If you’re in a movie that doesn’t work, game over and adios muchachos — no amount of star-charisma can save it.”
–Jeffrey Wells, HE
I know two people who, watching this trip, had the same realization I had when I dug into the Mueller and IG Russia reports: the media that they pay attention to has left them with a completely inaccurate picture of the world. Both quite liberal. One of them is an attorney, and she’s actually angry about it (I was too; I hate being fed BS, no matter how good the intentions behind it).
If any riots happen after the verdict, I think we can thank activist media that gave people a completely unrealistic expectation of what to expect from this trial (not to mention what happened that night).
I’ve always been liberal, but I don’t want my media to be a version of Fox. I want to know all the relevant facts. I want an accurate depiction of reality.
Now they’re calling the judge racist, they’ll probably call the jury racist. If the prosecution had filed realistic charges, based on publicly available video, everyone would’ve said that *they* were racist. Idiocy.
And this is not at all support for Rittenhouse. Tribal people imagine everyone being just like they are, rooting for one of two teams, because they can’t imagine anyone having principles that stand outside of that framework. Screw that kid (though here’s hoping he can grow in adulthood, and be given space to do so by both supporters and detractors).
Online is not reality. Online is not reality. Online is not reality.
Once you understand and appreciate that, the world makes more sense. Things that seem scary aren’t so scary. Other things our betters implore us to ignore come into clear view.
Always interested in hearing what the liberals in Naido’s circle are thinking.
You love to see it. Very emotional watch, his reaction to the verdicts reading. Of course there will be division about this… I noticed a headline on MSNBC saying that the trial had been designed to protect white conservatives. That #systemic nonsense.
I think they’ve gotten to a place where they engage in more harmful race-baiting than Fox does.
Well, the judge has become an international celebrity for going one step short of putting on a I heart Rittenhouse t-shirt
International celebrity?? Nobody outside the borders of the United States particularly cares about one American shooting another and the trial that follows.
You do, and the front pages of my newspapers do, and my upstairs neighbors had a Black Lives Matter flag hanging from the window until recently, following the giant protests against American police violence that took place in Oslo
Wait, you aren’t the infamous “Maga” who used to comment here, are you? Btw, any European who took part in any protests against American police violence in any European city is a brainwashed doofus. There are thousands and thousands of bigger injustices in the world, yet the was majority of those European protesters never protested against any of them.
I didn’t go to the protest, you keep changing the subject. You said no one follows this outside America, I give examples that many do, you say they’re stupid for doing so, but that doesn’t change the fact that his monologues about lunch being Chinese food that’s stuck in the harbor or him attacking the attorney for asking if a witness’s media outlet has a political leaning or, predictably, sending msnbc out of the courtroom, are widely seen internationally
George is a convicted European rapist and kiddie fiddler. You are arguing with scum
Oh hi again! https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/94ed7b02cef945693d46503fa93e7b6ea00ca1272c755b2aade4915e48e71bfa.png
You do know why MSNBC was kicked out, right?
Someone from there supposedly followed the jury bus. For all I know it was a legit call, just as the (crazy) law could be interpreted correctly, it’s just interesting when a guy with a certain reputation goes on to do exactly what’s expected of him like that.
Like cable news stalking jury members? Something totally in character like that?
You get that if the jurors’ identities get out then their lives are at hazard, right? And that would’ve been true no matter how they decided, right? Ever performed a civic duty (or any other duty) under circumstances like those?
And there’s no ‘supposedly’. NBC apologized almost immediately.
Suffice to say, and I left this out: that reporter got off light. He should get a taste of what the jurors would get if their identities leaked.
OK, then that’s something I shouldn’t hold against the judge
When your team loses in sports do you whine about the refs?
If he wears the opposing team’s shirt, sure. I don’t really have a “team” here, though, and I do admit that no matter how much of a comedy legend the judge has become, it may be that the killer didn’t break American law, which is even crazier
Please. You realize that he was traditionally a pro-prosecution judge, right? No, I doubt you knew that. In fact, you probably thought the people he shot were black, too.
why did he not shoot YOU is all I thought
The fact that yoe see murder as a sport is exactly WHY you should be ashamed of your emoty worthless life. CLOWN
Politics is already sports, and politicizing murder is sports…for the media and politicians and people addicted to politics.
Murder becoming sports is just the natural next step. I don’t condone it. But you people created the conditions, not one dumbass white kid trying to be a cowboy.
Boy, you’re really showing up with your A game, aren’t you?
BrinkerHadley is HE’s own producer Donnie, who posted here using the following usernames in the past: Pertwillabee, PolPot Stickers, and most recently Smiley Cartwright.
Isn’t this the idiot who lives in Scandinavia or something?
Great weather, clean air, amazing health care, low unemployment, awesome babes…yet all he does is spend all his time online whining ’bout the U.S. of A.
All of which makes me think, “wow, he really does wanna be ‘Murican.
You need to add “lots of spare time” to the list of Scandinavian traits 🙂 And yes, I am posting opinions about the subject of the discussion, which is the international news story of the moment, and until you stop talking about China or Afghanistan I feel fine about having opinions about your country, which I do love for the music and movies, if not the governing ability
Hey, Wells, since you love Pete Miesel so much, why don’t you marry him?
They’d better damn well find those three neighborhood vigilante guys guilty in the Ahmaud Arbery murder case. If they don’t, there will really be trouble in the streets.
Well, unlike the Rittenhouse case, which never had strong justification to be brought in the first place and collapsed during the trial before everyone’s eyes, the Arbery case appears by every standard to be exactly what everyone thinks it is.
The problem is, the media wants ratings, and riots bring ratings, and Rittenhouse was out of leftist media central villain casting.
Nothing bothers the Left so much as the Right’s condemnation of the Arbery killing (“Goddammit, why can’t they be RACIST here?!!”) and they‘d love nothing better than to watch Tucker Carlson defending the defendants on his show. That would be Progressive porn for them.
The Woke are vile beyond words.
Too bad I didn’t get called for this (I currently live in Kenosha). I would have hung it.
Rittenhouse’s attorneys have access to Google.
They would have found your intentions and had you dismissed from the jury before the trial began.
The Runaway Jury was a novel (and terrible Jon Cusak movie), not a how-to manual.
Well, I never published any such intentions prior to this trial, so, no.
I hope Poland gets arrested again. Fight the power, Dave!
If he looks like a shit, you must acquit.
I wouldn’t go anywhere near a protest without packing a weapon of some sort. I’m guessing there’s going to be a lot more guns on both sides going forward and this trial should make them all a little more fearful for their lives. Let the shooting commence!
So: Killer just gets away with it completely. Kills a couple of guys, wounds another. Says he was worried for his safety.
Definitely a great day out there for killers and murderers.
And definitely a sad day for little boy rapists.
“says we was”.
I’m a “no dog in your political game” guy from another country, and even I took the time to see the (great) video documenting the whole thing piece by piece from people’s and surveillance cameras.
He was most definitely attacked. He only shot AFTER he had been threatened / attacked.
You got your gun laws. You made them. Live with them and don’t try to be Sweden in the way you react to these whenever it suits you.
If you want change, ban open carry. Ban assault rifles. Change your old west laws still around in 2021.
But don’t come here to tell us “he says he was worried” as if we’re fucking BLIND.
It’s likely gonna be tough sledding out there on the streets in the foreseeable future. My advice would be:
1) Only attend smaller protests during daylight hours that are known to have a strong police accompaniment;
2) If you attend an “after-hours” protest that you think could hold the potential for some serious ugliness and/or confrontation:
a) believe in the cause of the protest enough that you’re willing to pay for it with your life;
b) arm the fuck up, legally or illegally, or go along with someone else who plans to. Either way, you need to be a part of the Not Fucking Around Crew™.
If you’re the kind of person that thinks these kinds of things can ever — much less always — be resolved definitively and satisfactorily in the courts, maybe sit this group of revolutions out…on the couch.
Oh yeah, and if you’re one of those people on the couch, do everyone else a favor and just shut the fuck up. That goes for me, but it especially goes double for Hollywood Elsewhere’s own “beta bitch,” Pete Miesel.
As they say: THREAD
Full Acquittal. The little Nazi scum got away with it.
Farris: Not how defamation works. He has to prove that the media knowingly said false things. An acquittal doesn’t prove that. If it did, OJ could have sued Norm MacDonald and Jay Leno into homelessness.
Jeff: Why screencap a comment that anyone who comes here will be able to see anyway? Weird.
Man they better convict the Atlanta guys or were gonna have protests for the Holidays.
The worst part is Rittenhouse will be a Congressman in 5-10 years.
It’s strange that the Georgia case, the truly egregious, corrupt and racist-as-hell situation, got so little attention in comparison to Rittenhouse. Just awful, and I hope those guys die in prison.
The precedent has now been set that if there’s a protest that right wingers don’t like they can start shooting. At best, it will chill ANY protest because people will be shit scared to use their free speech rights because someone might act up.
Hell, go to any sporting event and there will be at least ONE fistfight in the stands. People suck in large crowds.
REALLY not looking forward to the victory lap that one particular person is guaranteed to throw.
Chaos begets chaos. If things like this are happening:
then the guns are coming out and not just from conservatives.
“it’s our old friend, the inevitable consequences of our own beliefs”
Now they have another option — they can also run protesters over!
Public protest of every kind as we know it has been ended.
Do you even hear yourself when you say shit like this? LOL!
“So there they were, peacefully voicing their displeasure for the way their African-American brothers were being treated by this systemically racist white ethno-state when out of nowhere, a Nazi Klan member White Nationalist shows up with an assault rifle and starts shooting everyone he didn’t like. Outrageous!” – expert from The World According to Pete Miesel
People are angry. If anything I suspect this might lead to those same protestors fighting back now with weapons of their own.
This judge is gonna go down as an all timer for biased judges too. Some of his rulings were absurd.
Guarantee that if the verdict had been guilty, the defense would immediately ask for it to be set aside and the judge would have done so.
The judge would have done a striptease if the defense had asked him to
The good news is he’s going to get sooooo rich from all the upcoming defamation suits, he could single-handedly fund Biden’s BBB bill.
And in typical American style, the psycho killer will get that money while new moms will have to leap straight from their c-section to the hamster wheel of freedom for eight bucks an hour.
So innocent until proven guilty OR found guilty by Magnus.
I’m not saying he’s guilty by American law, but I bet wherever you live they’d arrest someone for going to a protest with a firearm, even if he didn’t “surprisingly” end up murdering people
Guess you somehow missed those protests in Minneapolis in summer 2020. There was a whole lotta not arresting goin’ on there — looting, arson, firearm shooting, or not.
I guess your American media feed to Oslo was down that day — errrr, month.
What a brilliant argument! I’m saying the law is stupid and you point to a time when you feel the same stupid thing happened
What would the people he killed need to have done for it not to be considered “murder,” in your view?
To put my opinion opinion into context, imagine hearing that in another country that a man killed his wife, but it wasn’t considered murder because the wife had cheated on him. You would still refer to it as murder, right? From my point of view, clearly more influenced by my culture than I thought before the reactions to this case, if someone takes a murder weapon, loads it with bullets, goes to a group of people he has a problem with and uses it to confront them, the inevitable bloodshed that follows is at least partly their doing. I think I might have charged him out of fear for my life. He could hypothetically have gone through his Dirty Harry routine with everyone surviving, but like driving down the highway in the wrong direction with a head full of acid or sending off fireworks inside a kindergarten, the actions were likely to lead to catastrophe, as they did in this case. Maybe “murder” is technically the wrong word, but I just can’t believe people are OK with citizens using guns to do what they feel the cops fail to do. And mentioning others on “the other side” (I find the idea of only two sides misleading) doing the same thing doesn’t change that. The kid clearly has severe mental issues, and I have some sympathy for that, and I can’t fault the jury for following the law if that’s what they did, but I do think the law is absurd, and when talking about the large number of armed civilians shooting people in self defense or out of suspicion the word murder does come naturally
THIS was happening in Kenosha that night:
So what are private citizens supposed to do when the police are unable (and, in rare cases, unwilling) to stop homes and cars and businesses from going up in flames?
And don’t forget: Rioting often leads to DOZENS of murders. The LA riots of 1992, for example, had over 50 of them.
50-plus people. Dead. At the hands of rioters.
And when the rioting is going on, you never know — in the moment — what the final death tally will be. Zero. Two. Ten. A hundred. You just don’t know.
So with this in mind — with these sorts of apocalyptic scenarios happening almost annually in U.S. cities right now — with lives being lost, and homes and businesses literally going up in flames — are you saying that a private citizen ought NEVER take up arms to do what law enforcement seems incapable of doing on its own?
In your view, when an individual DOES decide to grab a gun to defend lives and private property in the face of wild-eyed rioting and impotent law enforcement, is this individual little better than a murderer?
In the face of wantonly destructive anarchy (the very definition of rioting) what the hell are private citizens supposed to do?
Don’t forget that most of the people he stood up against also felt they were acting righteously and as a result of law enforcement not acting the way it was supposed to. I’ve experienced a few periods of rioting in Paris, including the famous 2005 riots, and we’d find burned up cars and destroyed bus stops and buildings on our way to school every day, and busloads of police used fire hoses on demonstrators,buildings were boarded up etc. The idea of me and my buddies grabbing guns and ammo and making our way into the fighting to support whoever we sympathized with is absurd, and if we ended up killing a few people it would be laughable to most locals to claim self defense for the totality of our actions. Do you think the idea of citizens being armed to defend themselves against each other is an efficient crime fighting strategy? And if so, what is it about America that keeps the murder rate so high?
“Don’t forget that most of the people he stood up against also felt they were acting righteously…”
Oh, I have no doubt they did. Everybody does. The question is, do YOU think they were acting righteously?
Do you really see a moral equivalency between Rittenhouse and the a**holes who got shot that night?
Do you know about those people? Do you know about their backstories? Do you know what they were doing in the milliseconds before Rittenhouse opened fire? Do you think they were acting “righteously” then?
Does any of this context mean ANYTHING to you?
In Rusia don’t let that happen?
1. What does Russia have to do with this topic? 2. Your English is broken.
I do not think you know what defamation is you ungodly nincompoop
Defamation is a person on a nation cable channel calling somebody a “white supremacist” without verifiable reason.
In other words, if Tucker Carlson showed your photo on his television show tonight and labeled you a “child molester” you’d have grounds to file a formation suit against him. (unless you were)
Defamation is a person on a national cable channel calling somebody a “white supremacist” without verifiable reason.
In other words, if Tucker Carlson showed your photo on his television show tonight and labeled you a “child molester” you’d have grounds to file a defamation suit against him. (unless you were)
This is false. Let me guess. Fake lawyer. Fake person. Fake human.
You have to show damages. Has this murderer been damaged?
Because you edited it.
I’ll Venmo you $500,000,000 if you can present one piece of evidence that shows he was a Nazi.
Proud Boys is a pugnacious rightwing thing, skin to Naziism in a certain light.
The Proud Boys are 50% FBI informants. Wake me up when they fly a plane into a building.
Voice of Treason fify
Were the 9/11 highjackers Nazis?!?!
Literally giving the modern-day White Power sign, lol. BuT tHAt’S jUsT A jOKe! Fine, let’s just say the little shit is “Nazi Adjacent” then.
So if we’re going that way, how about giving us some background on the people he shot?
Literally a child molester / rapist among those fine, upstanding gentlemen. Is that relevant to the case? No. But neither are the weirdos KR was seen with.
Bro, some moron asked for proof this militia kid was a racist, and it took me 3 seconds to find. Why don’t you just sit back and appreciate my completely dismantling that poor guy’s gotcha-moment, instead of your “whatabouta” BS.
Let’s face it, the only thing 100% factual we can agree on about this verdict is that every Rittenhouse supporter is an asshole.
Yeah, there’s no difference between screen-grabbing somebody making that gesture and a person posing for a photo making that gesture. No difference at all.
*with ANOTHER person making the same gesture as well
Ha! I didn’t even notice the other guy’s hand.
Or he’s saying OK. Maybe he’s a Martin Van Buren stan.
Kill a couple of brown shirts in self defense, get called a Nazi by online morons. What a world.
With malice aforethought Rosenbaum sought out single women for the express purpose of raping their boys — 5 of them, aged 9-11. He spent 15 years in prison for it. That’s your hero loser.
Even though slagging Rosenbaum helps “my” side, his career as a kid toucher is almost irrelevant in this case. He could have diddled all the kids in the world, but if he doesn’t attempt to murder Rittenhouse, Rittenhouse would have been guilty of murder himself.
It was Rosenbaum’s actions THAT NIGHT and that night alone that provided Rittenhouse the justification for his actions.
That’s not the point. The point is every single one of those assholes who assailed Rittenhouse that night, threatened to kill him, assaulted him, pulled a gun on him, for the crime of trying to put out the fires they were starting, is a felon with a history of violence. It goes a long way toward explaining why THEY were there, why THEY were aggressive, and puts the whole incident in it proper, and very important, context.
The following was written by Nellie Bowles for Bari Weiss’s substack:
A note on Kenosha in light of the Kyle Rittenhouse trial: Until quite recently, the mainstream liberal argument was that burning down businesses for racial justice was both good and healthy. Burnings allowed for the expression of righteous rage, and the businesses all had insurance to rebuild.
When I was at the New York Times, I went to Kenosha to see about this, and it turned out to be not true. The part of Kenosha that people burned in the riots was the poor, multi-racial commercial district, full of small, underinsured cell phone shops and car lots. It was very sad to see and to hear from people who had suffered. Beyond the financial loss, small storefronts are quite meaningful to their owners and communities, which continuously baffles the Zoom-class.
Something odd happened with that story after I filed it. It didn’t run. It sat and sat. A few weeks after I filed, an editor told me: The Times wouldn’t be able to run my Kenosha insurance debacle piece until after the 2020 election, so sorry.
There were a variety of reasons given—space, timing, tweaks here or there.
Eventually the election passed. Biden was in the White House. And my Kenosha story ran. Whatever the reason for holding the piece, clearly covering the suffering, financial and otherwise, after the riots was not a priority. The reality that brought Kyle Rittenhouse into the streets was one we reporters were meant to ignore. The old man who tried to put out a blaze at a Kenosha store had his jaw broken. The top editor of the Philadelphia Inquirer had to resign in June 2020 amid staff outcry for publishing a piece with the headline, “Buildings Matter, Too.”
If you lived in those neighborhoods on fire, you were not supposed to get an extinguisher. The proper response — the only acceptable response — was to see the brick and mortar torn down, to watch the fires burn and to say “Thank you.”
“Until quite recently, the mainstream liberal argument was that burning
down businesses for racial justice was both good and healthy.”
I’m reluctant to do any homework for you when the information you seek is so readily available. The attitude of the mainstream press toward the destruction and burning of property last year is well-documented. (“It’s just property, bro — it’s insured!” “MLK said a riot is the language of the unheard.” “You can rebuild stores, bro, but you can’t rebuild lives!” Etc etc)
The author of the paragraphs I cited — Nellie Bowles — who worked at The New York Times last year, KNOWS how her former colleagues feel about the destruction and burning of innocent people’s property when it is done in the name of “Racial Justice.”
If the people whose property is destroyed are POC, the attitude of the mainstream press is “Whoops! That sucks, but, y’know, these things happen. Revolution is messy.”
But if the people watching their property go up in flames are WHITE, the attitude of the Left and the mainstream press is, “Burn, baby burn! Shoe’s on the other foot now, isn’t it, motherf***er?!”
It really is sick.
And if the press DIDN’T have this attitude, then THIS wouldn’t have happened last year. But it did. The subheadline says it all:
To sum up: An editor wrote an Op Ed piece titled “Buildings Matter Too” that led to controversy and a WALKOUT by his colleagues at The Philadelphia Inquirer. A fucking WALKOUT. By dozens of journalists. Over an Op Ed titled “Buildings Matter Too.”
And I’m sure you’ll agree that The Inquirer is a mainstream publication. So is Rolling Stone, for that matter, which last year gave us THIS beauty:
And these are just two examples. Once again, the information you seek is readily available — if you’re genuinely interested. (I suspect you’re not, though. I’m sure you have zero problem with the attitude taken by the press last year. For instance, just how upset are you — really and truly — about the firing of that editor at The Philadelphia Inquirer? Does it really piss you off? Or do you basically not give a shit?)
That last paragraph is a fucking killer. The whole piece is, actually.
Hard to believe mainstream media outlets could have sunk so low as to regard rioting — wanton, wholesale destruction — in this manner, but they have.
Can we have a cite here- I’d be interested in seeing who was making that argument.
NO you are the loser not a hero. Truly the bottom of the barrel. I would shoot you for sport. Come on over.
The cockroaches are scurrying, aren’t they? You and Rosenbaum nest together.
Get bent dope
Btw, BrinkerHadley is HE’s own producer Donnie, who posted here using the following usernames in the past: Pertwillabee, PolPot Stickers, and most recently Smiley Cartwright.
Pete – Currently in first place in the HE Drama Queen Derby.
He was guilty of being a dumbshit. Alas, that is not a federal crime.
Here’s the problem. We have free speech rights and the right to peaceably assemble. But now, if ONE person misbehaves, right wingers are allowed to open fire. And you can bank on them showing up to future protests looking to start fights so they can get out their piece and go to town.
Farris, ALL of the Kenosha protesters were engaging in criminal activity? All of them? See, it’s that kind of sweeping messaging about the protests by the GOP that has made this so dangerous. If you decide that EVERYONE is rioting, you can shoot EVERYONE now. And if you happen to accidentally kill a person who was peacefully walking holding a sign, oh well, omlette/eggs.
Combine this with the laws passed allowing people to drive into a crowd of protesters if they feel “afraid”, a person will think long and hard about attending ANY protest. And that’s why the GOP is tacitly encouraging their followers to kill people when they lionize idiots like Rittenhouse.
“Misbehaves” is doing a lot of work in that argument.
The bar has been set so low, my choice of words is accurate.
Hell, go to a football game, and you can guarantee that there will be a least one fistfight in the stands. People stink in large crowds. So it doesn’t matter if the vast majority of the crowd are peaceful, they will be shot at if the guy with the gun unilaterally decides that someone isn’t doing right.
Either way, the uniquely American habit of dealing with EVERYTHING with a gun is going to destroy this country more than “wokeness”
Farris, don’t be an idiot. I wasn’t talking about weapons in stadiums. I was talking about how readily Americans throw down in seemingly innocuous places like a stadium, ergo it is likely that someone will do something stupid at a protest. And now that shooting at such people is being tacitly encouraged, we’re in for bad times.
If you want to live in a society where we constantly kill each other because we fundamentally can’t handle ANYTHING then you’ve found the right place.
Kid shouldn’t have brought an assault rifle to a protest. That was stupid, and it’s the reason why two people are dead. But it’s not a crime.
Kid got attacked and used the gun, which is also not a crime. Prosecution couldn’t prove otherwise because it was fairly clear that this is what happened and also because they were a bunch of incompetent dumbfucks.
These are the facts of the case. You don’t have to like them. I don’t particularly like them myself and wish two people weren’t dead. But to claim that this was some miscarriage of justice is a lie. Justice was served.
You lost today, kid. But that doesn’t mean you have to like it.
I would politely argue that the kid walking into that area with a rifle was a provocative act. I could even say that the people who “attacked” him were standing their ground. How do they know he’s not coming to shoot them. What I truly don’t like about the vague way self-defense and stand your ground laws (I know Wisconsin didn’t have those but hear me out) are written, it opens LARGE loopholes that allow a person to start a fight and start shooting when they’re getting their ass kicked. I honestly believe there needs to be some big time boundary clarification about that. Seriously, what did this kid actually think was going to happen when he went there? It’s distasteful as hell for some of the chuds popping champagne to cheer this on because that implies that they don’t care if he went there to kill. Not a great stance.
As I said the other day, I had a high school classmate shot dead point blank while on his paper route because the homeowner thought he was a burglar. This was in 1986 mind you, but if TODAY’S legal sensibilities and laws existed then, the homeowner would have gotten off scot free (he was sentenced to seven years and I think died in prison).
Bigger picture, Americans increasingly are killing one another over EVERYTHING and the cheerleading of some of that borders on sadism. Not a great omen for the future.
It’s pretty obvious, when you travel somewhere like this where this idiot kid went, and you bring along your assault rifle, it doesn’t take a huge leap to understand the mindset at work.
This is an absolutely horrific story. All we can do at this point is hope and prey that this dipshit kid lives the rest of his life in complete emotional agony. And we all move on.
Cheerleading for lives to be ruined though…totally okay.
He ruined his own life when he chose to play vigilante. He’s not in a cell, so maybe he’ll make something out of himself, but that’s probably not in the cards.
Mark sure knows about losing tho
“wish two people weren’t dead”
Generally speaking I don’t like people dying either, but these two were bad hombres. Rosenbaum sexually abused at least FIVE pre-teen boys, and Huber had a history of domestic abuse.
On one hand you’ve made a great metaphor here that politics is sports.
On the other, child molesters trying to hit you with a skateboard after calling you the n word and threatening your life aren’t super common at the local college basketball game.
Hold up. Did Rittenhouse have prior knowledge of the criminal record of one of the people he killed. At least these days, we’re not a country that condones extrajudicial murder for past offenses. It’s a weak argument. Keeping with the absurdity of the sadism of Rittenhouse stanners, it’s kind of funny that a stranger walking into a civil disturbance carrying a rifle is not considered provocation but a guy with a skateboard is.
None of this happens if this loser didn’t try to play cop. All on him.
You pulled out a picture of him making a white power symbol at the top of thread…
I would never justify the murders by referencing the past of the victims…the real point here is that the left, just like the right, doesn’t mind breaking principles to win an argument, a media perspective, a vote, or a narrative.
I didn’t do that with the picture. Go through the thread again.
This is not a good kid and the idiot pundits on Fox lionizing him for unrelated reasons are not helping. That being said, I do remember George Zimmerman, and Fox pointedly avoided the guy after his acquittal as if they already knew that he personally was a bad guy. My guess is in a week we’ll all haved moved on to the jogger killing in Georgia, and good fucking god that will be ugly if those guys walk.
the guy with a rifle is not provoking, but a guy with a skateboard is.
It’s like ok, here’s this fight, you’ve got a skateboard, and I’ve got a loaded rifle.
I was in fear for my life. LOL.
Not only did he clock the guy, but he fired 4 rounds! Sweet jesus christ. Let’s not forget, he fired a couple more round at others that MISSED. So I reckon it could have been even worse.
A complete scumbag. And he’s being lionized by some. His actions are utterly revolting. Hey! I just killed a guy, jogging away from the one murder and gearing up for the next one.
I’ve been to many, MANY stadiums across the fruited plains and/or Canada. Heck, I even work part-time in one. And NEVER have I seen a sporting venue that allows fans to bring in weapons.
Even in Texas.
What football games do you go to? Utter delusion to suggest there’s a fist fight at every game. You’re living in an alternate reality.
The assemblers in Kenosha were not peaceable. Ergo…
Honest question: since so many “conservatives” compare these demonstrations to the attack on Capitol, if a Black Lives Matter protester saw that event on TV, went to D.C., armed himself to the teeth, went into the crowd to “protect the capitol” and ended up killing two people and said he did it in self defense, would you be cool with that? Even if the judge kept talking about “Dumbald Drumpf”?
I think you know the answer is no.
Did the 1/6ers attempt to murder your imaginary defendant? And was it caught on video? That’d be hard to prove given few if any of them were armed.
But that’s why we have investigations and trials.
“and ended up killing two people and said he did it in self defense, would you be cool with that?”
My question would be: did he really kill those two peopel in self defense? If yes, then I absolutely would be cool with it.
what about your rape victims you pansy ass loser?
Same. And the left would defend the guy as a hero. The right would want him hunt. That is a bigger problem than Kyles case.
If your hypothetical Black Lives Matter protester were caught on tape doing volunteer EMT work all day (!) before being taped FLEEING from — and only THEN shooting at — several violent Proud Boys who were rushing at him (one of whom later admitted to pointing his PISTOL at the kid before being fired upon) and who had multiple criminal arrests and sexual offenses between them (including pedophilia) — you’re goddamned right I’d be cool with what he did. Are you fucking kidding me?
It’s not as if they showed up outside his house and he got his gun and tried to run away, he got his gun and went into the action on purpose in order to stand up against them, and if you intentionally confront someone with a loaded firearm it’s pretty far fetched to imagine you didn’t think you might use it. If I arm myself and walk into a drug den and then end up killing the people there, it may have been self-defense in the moment, but the idea that a private citizen shows up like Batman to confront people they decide are criminals undermines the entire concept of law enforcement. Again, I’m not saying the jury made the wrong call based on the law, I just find it crazy to have laws that allow kids to cosplay as police officers with the inevitable body count that we see over and over again in these situations (regardless of which “side” does it at any given time).
—-ALL of the Kenosha protesters were engaging in criminal activity? All of them?—-
The ones that were attacking Rittenhouse were, absolutely.
I’d be remiss by not pointing out the peaceable assemblers you’re talking about WERE NOT SHOT AT by Rittenhouse. He only defended himself against the ones actually attacking him.
Attacking him my ass. Why was he there at all? He should have been arrested initially just for carrying the gun. Was everyone else there allowed to openly carry (that would have been quite the sight to witness)? If not, then why this creep?
right. This is the problem. You and I can say that what this kid did simply by walking towards the crowd strapped was deliberately provocative. Yet somehow this crowd wasn’t allowed to defend themselves. For all they knew, he was coming to kill them. Or does “I was in fear of my life” only apply to one side of the political spectrum
The laws are WAY too vague about this. I truly believe that it would be insane to attend ANY protest about ANYTHING from now on because you know that Proud Boy types will show up looking to start a fight and then kill the person hoping there weren’t any witnesses to the beginning of the fight (do remember in the George Zimmerman case no proof exists that Martin threw the first punch unprovoked).
It’s all becoming way too vague.
Zimmerman’s face is proof. No one starts punching a guy AFTER they draw a gun on you.
Quit makin’ with the logic, boy. Ya bother me.
One of the people he shot had a pistol that he had visible bud…
Have a little more faith in the American justice system!
“Attacking him my ass”
You saw the video of one of the guys smacking him in the head with a skateboard, right? And you also saw the video of one of the guys pulling out a pistol and pointing it at his head while he lay on the ground, right? You must have seen that unless you’ve willfully ignored it. How can you make such a comment having seen video evidence supporting exactly what was described… they were attacking him. That’s not debatable.
Yes, he should have been arrested and charged with reckless endangerment the moment he took the streets armed in such a manner. He could and should still be charged with such a crime and maybe even something stronger. But this is as clear a case of self-defense as you could hope to capture on video. The jury got it right. Here’s a good, nuanced take:
lol if one person misbehaves…do you mean calls you the N word, threatens to kill you and chases you trying to take your weapon and attack you?
Yah I guess if someone misbehaves that way towards me I won’t shoot them, it’s not my style, but I will certainly fight back.
I lost track here, was this the first or second person that he killed that night?
It’s been documented Rosenbaum was calling him the n word.
I know it doesn’t mean he should have been killed or mean anything to the case, but it’s still damn rich that in a case involving only white people, those calling it a case “about race” defend the guy who was saying the n word and molested kids over the kid who just happens to look like he’s a member of a love Young Republican chapter.
I’m a goddamn leftists and I still can’t imagine being this willfully obstinate about the case.
Change in gun laws is needed. Unfortunately (Or fortunately) my feelings about that aren’t gonna put a kid in jail for life.
I think a big time rethink of self-defense laws are in order, because it defies belief that you can walk into that situation with a gun and be considered not escalating a situation by doing that.
I mean I don’t disagree here. I live in Texas.
Then again, our BLM protest in my town were peaceful on both sides and half the people with guns were there to protect protestors from the Texas Taliban types who we all know are ready to hurt teenagers with pink hair.
Whether Kyle wanted to be one of these libertarian Cowboys or a true White supremacist vigilante is another debate entirely.
I will say as a leftists from Texas, the perspective of gun carriers who consider themselves to be protecting protestors has not been heard and had even been actively coveted up by the media.
There is an entire wing of Proud Boy types who were Bernie people and hated Trump and those people don’t get any platform because they confuse the masses and mess up the media narrative. Just like the kind of black republicans and socialist ranchers you also find commonly in Texas.
I can’t wait til we get like a 30% voter pool in the 2024 general election and everyone on both sides realizes the jig is up.
Molesting kids does not carry a death penalty Logan or else HE’s own George would be six feet under where he belongs.
Pete, respectfully, your characterization does not accurately describe what happened, and you need to look at the actual evidence, law, and arguments that were presented. Ask any competent attorney, and they will tell you that this was a difficult murder case to prove because it was undisputed that Rittenhouse was being physically attacked when he fired shots. The prosecution attempted to prove that Rittenhouse provoked the attacks by pointing his gun at the protesters first, but they did not have clear evidence of it. They had a blurry video that was shot by a drone from a distance, which was never going to satisfy the “beyond a reasonable doubt” burden of proof applicable in a criminal trial. Factor in all the video footage that the prosecution introduced of Rosenbaum acting like a belligerent asshole that evening, and it’s not difficult to understand why the jury could not dismiss self-defense out-of-hand.
If the prosecution had clear evidence that Rittenhouse pointed his gun at the victims or otherwise physically threatened them before he was attacked, the verdict probably would have been different, but they didn’t have it.
And again, I’m not sympathetic to Rittenhouse at all.
It’s not a great portent for the future that “walking towards a crowd carrying a rifle” is somehow not seen as an act of provocation. I am VERY uncomfortable with the normalization vigilante justice. Zimmerman I guess was a taste. Maybe it won’t be so bad, because a gun automatically makes you immune to making a mistake.
Yes under the very broad self-defense law, brandishing a weapon someone isn’t seen as needlessly escalation a situation into a confrontation. And why couldn’t the victims have invoked “fear for their lives” to justify confronting him. For all they knew, he was a Proud Boy out to kill people.
For all he knew they were Antifa ouT to kill him.
“And why couldn’t the victims have invoked “fear for their lives” to justify confronting him.”
You literally just described the “stand your ground” rule that you claim to abhor.
The protest went too far. Hope you all enjoyed “The summer of love” It’s over. You don’t get to torch cities anymore without repercussions. Sorry.
The real take away here, is that in too many places authority stood back and allowed chaos to happen. Your favorite CNN and MSNBC hosts cheered it on. If order was maintained, none of this happens.
How about we just torch fat ass bigots ike you?
Not Jan. Just HE’s own Donnie. (The one who likes to harass Lex.)
The self-defence laws are really the reason why situations like this come to be. If some random other person, was carrying a weapon, observed this shooting, confronted the shooter and claimed they were acting in self-defence…it’s all good, at least as a winning defense argument. At the same time, people get sent to jail in the UK for racially abusing Futbol stars online. It’s just a whacky set of contributing factors that make the legal argument almost absurdly impossible. ‘It’s America man.’ (see Snot Boogie).
This might be the most, as a leftists, Ive ever recognized my own “side” lack perspective on the level of the right.
How can it be a race issue if everyone involved was white?
If you say “because a black person wouldn’t have been acquitted”…does two wrongs make a right? (This was the lefts argument against capital punishment for years)…will a punitive outcome do a single thing for black communities?
Did people just choose to not watch the video where it was self defense by letter of the law?
I know it shouldn’t have anything to do with the case but he killed a child molester and domestic abuser, one of which called him the N word when chasing him.
I understand the argument that this result sanctifies the idea of citizens walking around with heavy duty weaponry…he certainly could have been looking to take the law into his own hands. Unfortunately that’s a different issue that needs its own democratic/legal process, not one you can politicize on to a person who was, more or less, in a politics-stoked bar fight where weapons were involved.
He’s guilty of being a dumbass, being paranted by a dumbass, and by inhabiting what is a cultural American problem of allowing or encouraging vigilante-ism and politicized violence…but that entire argument is built into the sanctification of the worst parts of the riots as well…(on that note, can the left just recognize that the protestors were mostly peaceful but that there were asshole anarchist burning down peoples property? You’re asking the right to recognize that a lot of them were peaceful protestors, so can we just grow up and attribute the nuance we ask for to our own arguments?)
The largest issue here to me is that the media makes dog and pony shows of tragedy and willfully stoked flames that might result in more riots, more violence, etc
If you think the media isn’t as much at fault as this jury when it comes to future violence, I think you should take a mass comm course or look at Nazi Germany or just try to get some historical perspective that institutions and systems are always more to blame than individual people.
Good God I just think we’ve fallen apart as a culture when objectivity is replaced by political tribalism, because I know damn well Fox News would have wanted this guy hung if he was Antifa…and vise versa the left would have defended him as a hero
As for me, lover of the 99% of us and hater of all these institutions of power, I would have wanted the Antifa fellow acquitted as well.
We’ve become a culture that villify’s people because they are misinformed or crazy…despite the fact that people make new myths when the old ones have failed…and I’ll never understand how y’all can’t see that we are making villains of each other when the villains are George Carlin’s proverbial “club that you ain’t in”.
You’re basically make the case that vigilantes who put themselves in a tinder box are afforded carte blanche if someone makes a move towards him. It’s just an absurd argument. Yeah, the laws on the books are trash from a macro level. But this is essentially what happens when the the preoccupation of law and order is the protection of private property. Imagine the argument you’d be making when a bunch ‘protesters’ dumped the property of the East India Company into the Boston Harbour.
That perspective is all well and good til your small business gets burned down….many of which were owned by minorities.
Entirely descriptive. If the military makes collateral damage assessments on operations, I’m puzzled as to why uncorrected systemic policing problems that have cost lives for eons has to be confronted in the most appeasing manner to the majority. That’s not how I look at history. That’s not how I look at revolutions. That’s not how I look protest movements. I’m not condoning attacks but that wasn’t the target of the protest writ large. And I really don’t care for people who would spend their hours debating the tactics of the ANC during apartheid. At some juncture, the importance of commerce relative to historical injustice is not in excess.
Well you just made the mistake of assuming I would condone that if done by the military.
Ideology has killed more people than any single disease….if they want change they could have stormed the Capitol or every police station and I would stand behind it. That’s how you speak to power. Where they live. Attacking your own community is pointless and counter productive.
This is the unfortunate but very obvious eventual outcome of these open carry laws. You’re going to get these dudes who are heroes in their own minds coming into situations thinking they’re Rambo, when really they’re just going to get scared shitless and you’ll probably end up with more people dead than there would have been otherwise.
That being said, as stupid as I think the law is. It IS the law, so it really shouldn’t be that big a surprise to anyone following this case that he was found not guilty of all murder charges.
The weapons charge being dismissed, however, is pure bullshit. An obvious loophole that opposes the intent of the law.
The kid should have served some time for just being an idiot for being there in the first place. His parents should be held accountable for a 17 year old having an AR rifle. On the other had there is no excuse for what happened in Atlanta they must convict these guys. Not in favor of guns , too many bad things can happen.
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